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Yay or Nay? Demon: the Fallen

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  • #76
    Originally posted by thespiraleffect View Post

    I like the mechanics of DtD and I like the story, but it doesn't fit in my World of Darkness as is.


    Exactly. If Descent was created as its own completely separate game line, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But as part of the Chronicles of Darkness, it really does not mesh well with the rest of the setting.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



      Exactly. If Descent was created as its own completely separate game line, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But as part of the Chronicles of Darkness, it really does not mesh well with the rest of the setting.

      Well, Prometheans and alchemists get Weird Science, and mages can go full-on magitech if they want to, and a part of Descent's point is that its monsters are this bunch of divinely distant outsiders that even other monsters who go bump in the night have no idea what they're really dealing with...

      Anyways! Speaking less of preferences for DtD and more of virtues of DtF, and with a mention of Promethean, how successful are the Fallen (not the Earthbound NPCs) at playing God in the sense of breaking taboos of "only God can do it" sort of monotheistic blasphemies? (We do know they're not shabby at playing lowercase-g gods, with all the cults running around...


      MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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      • #78
        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post


        Well, Prometheans and alchemists get Weird Science, and mages can go full-on magitech if they want to, and a part of Descent's point is that its monsters are this bunch of divinely distant outsiders that even other monsters who go bump in the night have no idea what they're really dealing with...

        Anyways! Speaking less of preferences for DtD and more of virtues of DtF, and with a mention of Promethean, how successful are the Fallen (not the Earthbound NPCs) at playing God in the sense of breaking taboos of "only God can do it" sort of monotheistic blasphemies? (We do know they're not shabby at playing lowercase-g gods, with all the cults running around...

        I also don't care much for Promethean. I'm already human, I don't see the point in playing a game that revolves around trying to become one. Although I do understand the kind of narrative they were going for. As for mage "If they want to" being the key phrase there.


        The effectiveness of Demons in Fallen seems to be related to which house / caste or whatever they belonged to before the Fall.

        Defilers, for example, can change your physical appearance. But I'm given to understand that it's mostly cosmetic. If you actually want to improve your physical performance, you want to contact a Devourer.

        And that involves flesh crafting...
        Last edited by Nyrufa; 04-06-2018, 12:49 PM.

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        • #79
          I would think the problem a player would run into with a Fallen attempting play god or God in the modern night is that it would attract all kinds of wrong attention. If it is a DtF only story, plenty of other Fallen might try to interfere because it endangers the rest of them; or, alternatively, get jealous and attempt to usurp this new savior and take his flock. If it is crossgenre, then pretty much every other splat would have factions suddenly going after this would be deity.

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          • #80
            So, the usual uphill effort. Well, at least we get to be a legitimate fallen angel/ old god while doing it


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • #81
              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
              So, the usual uphill effort. Well, at least we get to be a legitimate fallen angel/ old god while doing it


              Also keep in mind that you're playing one of the weakest types of demon. The real heavy hitters are either still trapped in the Abyss, or members of the Earthbound. So just because your demon isn't some mighty elder god doesn't mean they don't exist.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



                Also keep in mind that you're playing one of the weakest types of demon. The real heavy hitters are either still trapped in the Abyss, or members of the Earthbound. So just because your demon isn't some mighty elder god doesn't mean they don't exist.
                And hey, a demon’s got to aspire something

                So far it certainly looks like DtF can provide a play experience/meaning that the existing CofD lines don’t quite touch. Even if that makes the world cluttered with “demons,” that’s a good sign.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • #83
                  While DtD is not high on my list of Chronicles of Darkness games I am a big fan of, there are no less than three game lines for Chronicles that many of the themes of DtD meshed extremely well with. Not liking it is one thing but the idea it doesn't mesh with the setting overall is laughable.

                  As for Demon the Fallen. It suffered from a lot of problems that first editions tend to have. It's mechanics in areas were poor and need of serious fixing and it had some setting problems(particularly some problematic things in the mostly good Earthbound book) that could all be remedied in say a 20th anniversary book perhaps. But there is enough compelling material left to work with certainly.
                  Last edited by TyrannicalRabbit; 04-07-2018, 06:04 AM.


                  “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by TyrannicalRabbit View Post
                    While DtD is not high on my list of Chronicles of Darkness games I am a big fan of, there are no less than three game lines for Chronicles that many of the themes of DtD meshed extremely well with. Not liking it is one thing but the idea it doesn't mesh with the setting overall is laughable.

                    What I mean is that I bought World of Darkness because it revolved around the supernatural being present in our modern day world. And for the most part, the game lines have kept to that theme with vampires, werewolves, mummies, witches, faeries and all that good stuff.

                    I did not sign up for a futuristic sci-fi thriller, which Descent appears to be largely influenced by. It does not fit with the rest of the theme World of Darkness had going for it. Which is why I say that it doesn't mesh well.


                    Vampire: I'm a blood drinking corpse with mystical powers.

                    Werewolf: I'm a shapeshifting shaman with spiritual powers.

                    Changeling: I'm a creature straight out of your dreams, with magical powers.

                    Demon: I'm a combination of Neo, GLaDos, and Shodan!
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 04-07-2018, 09:52 AM.

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                    • #85
                      Let’s take the D:tD talk to the CofD forums, please. It’s beginning to detract from the topic at hand.


                      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by thespiraleffect View Post
                        I would think the problem a player would run into with a Fallen attempting play god or God in the modern night is that it would attract all kinds of wrong attention. If it is a DtF only story, plenty of other Fallen might try to interfere because it endangers the rest of them; or, alternatively, get jealous and attempt to usurp this new savior and take his flock. If it is crossgenre, then pretty much every other splat would have factions suddenly going after this would be deity.


                        The things is, though, that demons draw their power from the worship of mortals. And I don't see them inspiring too much faith by maintaining a low profile out of fear of being targeted by others. Mortals, cultists especially, want their patrons to be grandiose and powerful. That's why they pray to them, so that they can achieve things that would not normally be possible under their own power. If word gets out that their demon lord is afraid of another demon and doesn't wan to attract notice, they'll probably defect over to their side. Unless the demon has stripped them of their ability to do so.

                        And if I understand correctly, the end times scenario involves Lucifer announcing himself to the world by manifesting his true form over an entire city and leaving it there for several days.

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                        • #87
                          Just spitballing here, but maybe Lucifer isn't as concerned about the risks involved in other supernaturals taking umbrage at him being indiscreet as PC-level characters ought to be?

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                          • #88
                            Considering Lucifer never suffered the issues brought on by the Abyss and was never cursed beyond being forced to walk the earth, at least to my knowledge, he likely wouldn't give two figs about what other supernaturals think unless they pose a direct threat to his own plans. Not like he needs to secure worship in the modern day either given the widespread abrahamic religions and there being at least one branch that pretty much worships one version of him. So he's not gonna run out of power anytime soon. Lucifer pretty much occupies a similar position to Caine in terms of power level(ie whatever the GM needs). At least thats my impressions.

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                            • #89
                              Lucifer > Arcangels that cursed Caine > Caine. In my opinion

                              But he does risk getting killed by the joined effort of the Archdukes, that's why he didn't show his cards for milenia, instead fighting trough proxy (creating demon hunter orders and trying to erase faith in the age of reason. He chooses to risk his life at the end)

                              Originally posted by Amalasuintha
                              Considering Lucifer never suffered the issues brought on by the Abyss and was never cursed beyond being forced to walk the earth, at least to my knowledge, he likely wouldn't give two figs about what other supernaturals think unless they pose a direct threat to his own plans. Not like he needs to secure worship in the modern day either given the widespread abrahamic religions and there being at least one branch that pretty much worships one version of him. So he's not gonna run out of power anytime soon. Lucifer pretty much occupies a similar position to Caine in terms of power level(ie whatever the GM needs). At least thats my impressions.
                              Whatever the GM needs doesn't equal invincibility. The GM may choose that Lucifer can't show himself without suffering nasty consequences, as the fabled Antediluvian (also GM fiat power level) soon discovered

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Amalasuintha View Post
                                Not like he needs to secure worship in the modern day either given the widespread abrahamic religions and there being at least one branch that pretty much worships one version of him..


                                Assuming you're referring to modern day Satanists, that's not completely accurate. They don't worship the devil, per se, but rather they seek to emulate him. Satan's name means "the Adversary" and by taking on the role of the adversary themselves, they take on the role of Satan.

                                Modern Satanism has more in common with the ideal of worshiping yourself, rather than some outside power.

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