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Yay or Nay? Demon: the Fallen

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



    Assuming you're referring to modern day Satanists, that's not completely accurate. They don't worship the devil, per se, but rather they seek to emulate him. Satan's name means "the Adversary" and by taking on the role of the adversary themselves, they take on the role of Satan.

    Modern Satanism has more in common with the ideal of worshiping yourself, rather than some outside power.

    Taking in count the context , probably wasn't talking about them but about the ones that actually worship the devil. It gets confusing because those post-modern Crowley-like "Satanists" you're taking about took that name for the reasons you stated, disregarding the fact that people that worship mythical Satan do exist.

    However, while I'm sure that worshiping no one ain't going to fuel faith to anyone, I'm not so sure that worshiping "the devil" counts as giving faith to Lucifer any more than it would give faith to more devilish devils (like pretty much every demon but Lucifer). After all, Lucifer it's a fake name, and the imaginery doesn't fit either. Heck, Satanists, by worshiping themselves, are more luciferian-friendly than devil worshipers
    Last edited by Aleph; 04-17-2018, 10:42 AM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Aleph View Post
      Lucifer > Arcangels that cursed Caine > Caine. In my opinion

      But he does risk getting killed by the joined effort of the Archdukes, that's why he didn't show his cards for milenia, instead fighting trough proxy (creating demon hunter orders and trying to erase faith in the age of reason. He chooses to risk his life at the end)



      Whatever the GM needs doesn't equal invincibility. The GM may choose that Lucifer can't show himself without suffering nasty consequences, as the fabled Antediluvian (also GM fiat power level) soon discovered
      Yeah I know Lucifer isn't invincible. In terms of power, I'd place him far above antediluvians though due to the way angelic abilities work in DtF and the fact that his powers were never stripped from him in any fashion. Plus no abyss slicing his essence up with its antithesis winds like it happened to the others(winds being figurative since different demons experiences the abyss slightly differently from what I can tell).

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



      Assuming you're referring to modern day Satanists, that's not completely accurate. They don't worship the devil, per se, but rather they seek to emulate him. Satan's name means "the Adversary" and by taking on the role of the adversary themselves, they take on the role of Satan.

      Modern Satanism has more in common with the ideal of worshiping yourself, rather than some outside power.
      I wasn't thinking of satanists no for the very reasons you said. I was thinking of a particular religion in the middle east that appearantly places Lucifer on the worship pedestal in some fashion. Though I'm not terribly familiar with the religion myself and reading up on it, it sounds like it might be Lucifer or it might not. The religion in question is called "Yezidi" if you wish to look it up.

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      • #93
        If I were to use Lucifer as an NPC in my game, I would strip the static effects of his known evocations and give them Sphere-like dynamic powers.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by thespiraleffect View Post
          If I were to use Lucifer as an NPC in my game, I would strip the static effects of his known evocations and give them Sphere-like dynamic powers.
          Lucifer would have five dots in just about any sphere except Spirit, but statting Lucifer kind of misses the point of someone on his power level.

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          • #95
            As the saying goes "if it has stats, we can beat it"

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
              As the saying goes "if it has stats, we can beat it"
              Theoretically, yeah, but sometimes the stat block says stuff like 'eats 1d10 characters a round.'

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                As the saying goes "if it has stats, we can beat it"


                There are some videos on youtube describing how to do MILLIONS worth of damage in D&D using fucking cantrip spells!

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                • #98
                  My problem with Demon is mostly lore-wise. I think they explain too much about the nature of the rebellion and the origin of demons. "This is exactly what happened, this is why it happened, it's not up for debate" when it would have been more interesting to go with a New World of Darkness style "maybe it went down like this, or maybe like that. Maybe God was evil, maybe he was good. Maybe Lucifer was good, maybe he was evil". I think that would have left things more open to player interpretation.

                  I also think the developers missed a golden opportunity by focussing on the fallen-angel element rather than sin like in Inferno. The whole idea of "Seven Deadly Sins" had been practically gift-wrapped for the devs when coming up with demonic houses. Instead they went with the whole idea of basing them off the roles the Fallen had during the creation of Earth, which led to a bunch of weird Lores and Apocalyptic forms which sounded like they belonged more in a superhero comic than any kind of horror story.

                  Any look at demonic vestments for the possessed in Inferno and you see a wealth of potential powers for a sin/vice-based splat to make use of which would have been thematically appropriate.

                  You had the potential for a truly twisted gameline based on human vice and immorality, and how it might interact with things in the WoD. You could also have brought in Angels, scary emissaries of Heavenly Wrath, as secondary antagonists along with the Earthbound.

                  Even though I like Fallen a LOT more than Descent I still feel it was a missed opportunity in many ways.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                    It also has startlingly bad fluff in a demon mentioning that autistic people have weak connections to their souls and make for easily-had vessels.

                    As an autistic person, I can say my connection to my soul is perfectly fine. Thankfully this seems to be going the way of the Wu-Keng.

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                    • Was this something from the Core? I remember things like catatonic/Comatose people being suitable targets as well as those who fried their brains from constant drug use or another form of brain damage, but did they say autistic people in like a chapter fiction or something?


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                        Was this something from the Core? I remember things like catatonic/Comatose people being suitable targets as well as those who fried their brains from constant drug use or another form of brain damage, but did they say autistic people in like a chapter fiction or something?
                        Page 82 of the core book, in a conversation between Ahrimal and his thrall Hannah:

                        Originally posted by Demon: The Fallen
                        “What about the mentally ill?” Hannah says.

                        I nod. “Mental instabilities like severe autism render the host incapable of truly exerting their free will, making them vulnerable.”

                        “But what about their souls? Are they also… weakly tethered?”

                        “Not so much weakly tethered as simply unable to assert their will in opposition to ours. As to what happens to them… honestly it depends. Some are forced out of their body, to whatever fate awaits them, while others, I suspect, are driven deep into the recesses of their brains, helpless to interfere with the demon’s wishes. So, yes, we possess the insane. We find them in Gropiusstadt alleyways, with so many track-lines that their veins have collapsed and left long clefts up their arm. We find them in the deepest, darkest rooms of Invalidenhaus or in the rest homes for the elderly, which are some times far worse than any asylum. When it comes down to it,” I admit, “we are demons, most times even after we find a host.”

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                        • I think I read that part differently from some people here, I always assumed it just meant they effectively had less ability to say "no" to the invading demon. He even says right there, it doesn't mean their souls are more weakly tethered really. And he does specify "severe."

                          Anyway, I love Demon. I love how everything about them is so intensely emotional and they don't really know how to deal with it. I love that Lucifer and all of the Fallen aren't necessarily the villains at all, but they could be. I don't mind that it's loosely inspired by Abrahamic mythology and encompasses all other mythology in a "lesser" way (I'm not really any sort of religious, so I don't have much investment there). I don't mind that it lays out so much of the backstory, it's a good read that helps establish a lot of the foundations and then you're free to mess with present-day dynamics as you like. Time in the Abyss, the host's nature, and fuzzy memories of the war all have major effects on how the fallen remember and interpret those early days, and how they see each other now. At the same time, you are playing beings who have existed continuously since that time, not descendants 15 to 1000 generations removed, so it makes sense that there should be some established common ground and absolute truth.

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                          • Yeah it specifically is saying they aren’t weakly tethered to their soul, they are just more vulnerable to resisting a demon, and it sounds like it’s specifically talking about severe nonfunctional levels of autism.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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