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  • City book - seeking advice

    Aside from the obvious "research the city history" and "research Canon in other books", if one was to write a city book (either a ... by Night, Necropolis..., Rage across..., or a WoD ....) what would be other elements or aspects to consider? And for that matter what would be more convenient a Single- or a Multi splat book?



    Project consolidation:
    Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
    In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

  • #2
    theirs "Book of the City" for WTA 3rd edition.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
      theirs "Book of the City" for WTA 3rd edition.

      Reafing a coule reviews, although Garoucentric, this could be of help with any splat chosen to get the WoD bleaker feel. Thank you.


      Project consolidation:
      Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
      In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

      Comment


      • #4
        I've found Requiem's Damnation City fairly useful, design wise.

        One thing to possibly consider is what is it about the city of region that makes it fairly unique in terms of the modern dark fantasy genre and/or the game setting. For example, Chicago made such a perfect signature city for Vampire because of it's mix of wealth, working class industry, political corruption and crime. I rather wish Werewolf had done an Alaska setting book because it's a setting in which the Wendigo and Red Talons probably would've been two of the dominant tribes, which would've been a shift from they way things are in "standard" games. New Orleans has a huge number of hooks that make it work really well as a setting for all five of the main game lines as well as others. It's connection to Anne Rice's work and it's political corruption work well for Vampire, and it's place in voodoo culture works with Mage and Wraith, for example. It's also really good for doing Southern Gothic style stories.



        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
          I've found Requiem's Damnation City fairly useful, design wise.

          One thing to possibly consider is what is it about the city of region that makes it fairly unique in terms of the modern dark fantasy genre and/or the game setting. For example, Chicago made such a perfect signature city for Vampire because of it's mix of wealth, working class industry, political corruption and crime. I rather wish Werewolf had done an Alaska setting book because it's a setting in which the Wendigo and Red Talons probably would've been two of the dominant tribes, which would've been a shift from they way things are in "standard" games. New Orleans has a huge number of hooks that make it work really well as a setting for all five of the main game lines as well as others. It's connection to Anne Rice's work and it's political corruption work well for Vampire, and it's place in voodoo culture works with Mage and Wraith, for example. It's also really good for doing Southern Gothic style stories.
          I'll have to look up that book.

          My idea is to cover Ottawa (Ontario) and the surrounding National Capital Region.

          The city is Canada's Federal Capital, siting unto a geographic/provincial/linguistic border. You have a huge natural park with black bear, turkey, raven, boar, lynx and 2 packs of eastern wolf. Rideau canal, an historical escape route to Kingston (near the Thousand Islands in the St-Lawrence river and a small Camarilla city).

          It is also a Camarilla city stuck between 2 Sabbat City: Montreal (200km East) and Toronto (400km South). Detroit, another Sabbat city, is roughly 800Km southwest and Québec City, a Camarilla city, 450k northeast, beyond Montréal.

          There is a fair bit of potential here
          Last edited by Boneguard; 04-28-2018, 03:07 PM.


          Project consolidation:
          Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
          In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

          Comment


          • #6
            Interesting. I could easily see the Prince as having a sort of siege mentality turning him/her into a tyrant.



            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
              Interesting. I could easily see the Prince as having a sort of siege mentality turning him/her into a tyrant.
              It is definitely a city under siege as both Sabbat cities are known to sent troops as well as "football" players, I had not considered the Tyrant angle, but would have to check the relevant section in Montreal By Night for that info (and move it forward in time). One idea I have is a slightly might Cainite population to withstand the regular attack...and maybe a higher Caitiff population from surviving shovelheads left behind.

              The park could have some Fera and Garou, Kingsmere are good place for easy access to the Ottawa Necropolis. Not too sure about the other splat, there has to be some Mage, Changeling, Hunter, Demon, Kuei Jin and Mummies (maybe South American ones) around, but not too sure those, probably some one off...might add them either as generic option or specific as for cross over hook option.


              Project consolidation:
              Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
              In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

              Comment


              • #8
                Toronto is kinda big as a Changeling setting, being the setting for a lot of Charles de Lint books, so some of that may carry over to Ottawa.


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hmm, interesting. And he is living in Ottawa too. Cool.

                  I was able to piece together that Ottawa sits in the Kingdom of Northern Ice, so that helps a bit, and the Gatineau Park does lend itself more easily for some Inanimae and some Nunnehi (in particular: May-may-gway-shi and Thought-crafter) tied to the nearby Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg band nearby...which might also support a small Wendigo population.

                  I'm really leaning towards a Vampire book at the moment with inclusion of the others splat for flavor and hooks.


                  I'm kind of of drawing a blank for Mage. Tradition or Technocrat? Any thoughts


                  Project consolidation:
                  Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                  In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For Mage, think of what mythic threads are present in Ottawa.

                    The Technocrats will have at least low-level operatives, as Ottawa is a national capital of a major first world country. I'd figure a few New World Order types would be there, with a few Extraordinary Citizens (acolytes) to help out with the day-to-day control of Canada.

                    For the Traditions, what is the presence of First Peoples in Ottawa like? Are there immigrant communities with some cultural roots that a mage following those practices might hide out in? Are there major art and cultural activities which are not under strong government influence? Is there room for some strange scientists in the area? What about the computer hacker scene? How about churches?

                    One thing to consider if you are making a book is leaving out a game. The more factions you discuss vying for power, the more the game lines cross. Someone who really wants Ottawa for their vampire game may not want the city to have a bunch of mages. Someone who dislikes vampires would probably want to see other groups covered.

                    Isle of the Mighty for Changeling is an example of a location book with both mages and another group, in this case, fae. The mages take a backseat to the fae, but are nonetheless present and do influence the British Isles.

                    Finally, if you are bringing in a variety of supernatural groups, be certain to have helpful advice about how the group should be played in the city.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As far as Changeling goes, yes, all of Canada (and I think Alaska, but I'm not sure) is the Kingdom of Northern Ice. Following the pattern that most of the US States are Duchies of whichever Kingdom they're in, I presume Ontario is The Duchy of Something and neighboring Quebec is the Duchy of Somethingelse. This may make the city (which I think usually get made into Baronies or something) potentially "interesting" politically, as right across the river you've have Gatineau where everyone answers to not only a completely separate Baron(ess) - who may insist on being called the Marquis de Gatineau - but also a separate Duke/Duchess. (Personally, I've always found Changeling's Kingdom/Duchy set up kind of clunky and un-dynamic, so I'm not up to date on any recent C20 stuff about them; others on the Changeling forum can probably give you more detailed canon information about the Kingdom of Northern Ice if it exists.)

                      Regarding Mage, I've no idea how M20 does it, but the standard set up (back in 1st, 2nd and Rev Eds) was that the Technocracy is there, kind of like those creepy mega corps in cyberpunk stories, but that there are a lot of holes in their coverage and "control", usually anywhere one finds underground subcultures, ethnic enclaves, and other nonconformists. In Ottawa, the New World Order almost certainly has it's share of agents and opinion makers lurking about the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's head office and wherever the Telecommunications Commission hangs its hat, as well as checking in on the city's other TV and radio networks from time to time. Probably also keeping tabs on the local school boards for possible disruptions when they can spare the time from sticking their noses into the Heritage Department's business. The Syndicate, in the same vein, probably has a few people keeping track of the Finance Department and banks, at least when they can spare the time from trying to line their own pockets with side projects. The Progenitors more than likely have a person or three who do the same with Health Canada. Iteration X and the Void Engineers probably have much less interest in the city than the others.

                      With the Traditions, when the Tory Loyalist refugees from the American Revolution settled in Upper Canada, they likely brought with them a number of Verbena family lines, including Pure Bloods who trace themselves back to the ancient Wyck. Probably also Hermetics who hid their Art under the cover of 18th century Freemasonry and Natural Philosophy. If there's a Hermetic chantry in the city, I would suspect it's home to several members of House Guernicus/Quaesitor, because of their focus on issues of mundane and mystical law. Maybe also one or two of House Jerbiton who use their social abilities to try to influence members of the government when possible. And because of the Changeling/Charles de Lint thing, House Merinita. Dreamspeakers can pop up almost anywhere, be it from members of original First Nation peoples, various immigrant communities or other things. (I could easily see some Dreamspeaker Solitaire who's totem is the spirit of the Rideau Canal or the Peace Tower.) Members of the Akashic Brotherhood are also not uncommon, and Virtual Adepts show up in most urban areas. All of the Traditions could have representation in the city, as could more than a few of the Crafts.



                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks you both, that's really helpful.

                        @baakyocalder
                        The issue of crosssetting has crossed my mind. Odds are it will turn out a Vampire book (with potentially a couple Laibon and Kuei-jin). The others, might be more incidental, more as a backburner player, but with enough to hopefully help a ST flesh out those he wants to keep and throw away the rest.

                        Edit:
                        aside from the 2 mentioned, odds are very good other splat included will probably boil down to 1 or 2 pages of text with a couple of members in text form (maybe 1 fully detailed NPC if warranted).
                        Last edited by Boneguard; 05-01-2018, 08:54 AM.


                        Project consolidation:
                        Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                        In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've skimmed through the 2016 Census for the Ottawa-Gatineau region (aka National Capital Region) and came up with some numbers. Obviously there is more to it but it still give a good snapshot of the global population.

                          With the 1:100 000 Ratio we would look at 12 Kindred. Considering the state of siege I'm considering upping to to about 15-17. I'm considering 1 or 2 Samedi and maybe 2-3 Laibon as there's a good population from the Carribeans and Sub-Saharan Africa. I might also add in addition to that number 2-5 Kuei-jin as we have a good Asian population.

                          For other splat, if they get included, I would be leaning for:

                          With Maniwaki/Kitigan Zibi nearby and the 2 pack of Eastern Wolf in the Gatineau park, I might add a small Wendigo Caern there, with possibly a small Children of Gaia/Bone Gnawers city caern and a second small Glasswalker caern (a quick little 2 pagers).

                          Wraith will also get a couple pages as there are several good point for a mini-Necropolis (Ottawa Jail Hostel, Byward Museum, Châteu Laurier, Kingsmere to name a few)

                          Mage might get a similar treatment with a small-to mid sized Mixed Tradition population and a similar sized Technocracy population.

                          Same goes with changeling with some Nunnehi at Kitigan Zibi and a small population in the Ottawa-Gatineau area.

                          Hunter, Demon, Orpheus, and Mummy would be likely just be a couple isolated members at best.

                          Thought?
                          Last edited by Boneguard; 05-02-2018, 05:02 PM.


                          Project consolidation:
                          Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                          In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'd say 15 or so vampires + the player character would be about right. As for Kuei-jin, there'd likely only be one (I'm completely blanking on what they call their coteries/packs) of maybe 3 members who are all immigrants and may or may not avoid interaction with Kindred, depending on circumstances. Any Kindred of Asian ethnicity who already have domains, havens or other interests in the city's ethnic enclaves may see them as hostile invaders trespassing on their turf.

                            Wraith would probably be the easiest other group to include, as they'd remain mostly a separate thing on the other side of the Shroud, outside of haunted places or if there is a Risen in the city/region.

                            (If White Wolf had kept doing city sourcebooks into the digital publishing era, it would've been easy, I think, to put out one of those $2 or $3 PDF files on DriveThru providing, say, Werewolf information for a Vampire by Night book or so on. You could possibly do your book as a Vampire one, and then add separate appendixes for other games later.)


                            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                              I'd say 15 or so vampires + the player character would be about right. As for Kuei-jin, there'd likely only be one (I'm completely blanking on what they call their coteries/packs) of maybe 3 members who are all immigrants and may or may not avoid interaction with Kindred, depending on circumstances. Any Kindred of Asian ethnicity who already have domains, havens or other interests in the city's ethnic enclaves may see them as hostile invaders trespassing on their turf.
                              a yes a Wu. A balanced one is 5 members, that would be perfect.

                              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                              (If White Wolf had kept doing city sourcebooks into the digital publishing era, it would've been easy, I think, to put out one of those $2 or $3 PDF files on DriveThru providing, say, Werewolf information for a Vampire by Night book or so on. You could possibly do your book as a Vampire one, and then add separate appendixes for other games later.)
                              I had not thought of that idea, but I love it. Having the other splat as added-on appendix would provide the information, but could easily be ignored if crossover was not an option.

                              that's a beautiful, elegant solution to my conundrum. Thank you.




                              Project consolidation:
                              Rough Draft: Dhole Shifters, Ottawa By Night, Tribebook Bunyip, Garou Variant
                              In redaction: Lasombra Bloodline

                              Comment

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