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Sexuality in the WoD?

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  • #16
    In our games for Vampire we really have the whole spectrum.

    We have vampires who enjoy mundane sex.
    Others who enjoy mundane sex if it's paired with feeding.
    Others who really don't enjoy mundane sex and don't see the point outside of feedings.
    Others who don't enjoy any sex at all even when there's feeding involved.
    And some who enjoy specific kinks and actions that are, in some way, sexual in the way they deal with them.

    So basically, if you want a vampire partner, good luck guessing what there stance is.

    Usually, what will define their sexuality is their mortal life (were they highly sexual or not? were they a virgin? what kind of people did they like? did they have specific kinks? was sex casual or very meaningful?), how old they were when they were embraced (basically were they old enough to have a sex drive or not), do they have specific feeding habits, are they on a path/road and if yes, which path/road? Do they like intimacy?

    Same goes with being LGBTQ, depends a lot: when were they embraced, who did they like as mortals, and their relationship with sex. Some characters will just stop to care since they lack a sexuality to draw a line between genders.

    Some characters we have whose sexuality is defined in our game:
    1) A 1200 years old Brujah who was pulled back from Wassail by a salubri and remembers nothing from his mortal life. "Sex" is meaningless for him, except as a tool to feed on mortals because he knows they do it. He does have a sexual relationship with a Ventrue because they like to feed from one another, though at the beginning, it was more about helping the Ventrue with his feeding restrictions while they were on the run during the Anarch Revolt.

    2) 500 years old lasombra archbishop on the Road of the Adversary/Road of Pleasure (his specific bloodline adheres to a mix of the two that later birthed the Path of the Cathari). Highly sexual when he was mortal, as was his sire, and they added feeding and the Kiss to that when they were Embraced rather than erase completely their former sexuality. A lot of people in the Sabbat kind of don't know what to feel about the fact he still enjoys sex that much. Of course, he's the kind of guy who don't care about the amount of blood it takes to awaken all the places of his body needs for each specific session.

    3) 50 years old Brujah who never had sex as a mortal and was kinda bi but always liked women more, and has the Blush of Life merit and a high humanity/generation. Actually less sexual than the archbishop, but likes the intimacy a lot, and feels that feeding is more consensual when it's part of consensual sex.

    4) 50 years old Ventrue who usually won't have sex, but enjoys it (paired with bites) with specific partners. Usually involves a lot of powerplay or is quickly bored.

    5) 10 years old Toréador AT who always felt like body functions were useless and the marks of an inferior being. Anything that does not include a bite with another vampire is not sex for him. Is currently in a relationship with a Lasombra, mostly because he is Unbondable and the Lasombra is finally able to get his regular bite without blood bonding his partner.

    And then we have things that are not really sex or not perceived as such by the character buuuuuuuuuuut still kinda are, or characters who are pretty old and still haven't figured out that they still have a sexuality, like Etrius, who has a string of beautiful women as Childes whom he "fell in love" with (looking at you Astrid) and then quickly discarded because a sexual relationship isn't pure enough for someone like him. Is actually in a weird relationship with his personnal bodyguard but will never admit that he is because that would defeat the purpose, he views that as a master/servant "road of kings" thing and pretends the whole "yes master" roleplay isn't sexual. As his bodyguard would say, denial is a wonderful thing often found in former mages who believe repeating a lie a thousand times will make it true.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
      A bit of both. That is, how often does someone make a LGBTQ character for a game? How often do players say their character is having sex? How do you feel about sexuality being presented in the book?
      LGBT characters happen in my games both PC and NPC, i am all for it.
      What we all can agree upon is most likely that sexual violence on the other hands should stay away from the gaming table.
      On the other side, i do a fade to black for sex scenes. I doubt there is much to gain there role play wise anyway. Now sexual innuendo on the other side is part of my games.

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      • #18
        Opps! Wrong thread.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
          Vampires are sexual predators.
          How are Kindred "sexual predators" if they can't have sex at all (rather Vampires with low humanity or path followers can't feel sexual pleasure) according to their source material?

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          • #20
            VtM often depicts the Kiss (itself a somewhat sexual term) as a sexual act. It also involves the exchange of bodily fluids. And except for the Nos, many vampires get buy on their good looks and seductive power. They are metaphorical sexual predators.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
              VtM often depicts the Kiss (itself a somewhat sexual term) as a sexual act. It also involves the exchange of bodily fluids. And except for the Nos, many vampires get buy on their good looks and seductive power. They are metaphorical sexual predators.
              Here's the "Vampires are Rape Metaphors" again which I whoefully disagree here especially "exchange of bodily fluids" I often keep hearing within these circles a poor definition of rape right there since it ignores the greater implications of rape culture that is about exerting coercive and abusive power and control over marginalized groups like women via sexual intercourse (and of course there's Forced Birthers as well) since in VtM's case it has taken the "Boys will be Boys" image on rape with the "Beast" and "Frenzying" and such.

              Even if WW has written them as rape metaphors, it is because they're written by either by rapists themselves (since there are a few in the WW team) or their apologists or they actually want it to be about rape just to be "Dark and Edgy" that is.

              Then again if anyone of you keep referring Vampires as "Rape Metaphors" then don't you think you have a hard time defending your own game where you play as rapists pretty much? Hence regarding the Second Inquisition as a metaphor for the "MeToo" movement or "SJWs are striking back at us" or "Why can't you lets us be Men/Vampires?" which is the main point of V5?

              Besides I never saw Vampire Feeding itself as rape or sexual assault but more like Theft and Canniablism Lite, I think the Kiss is just a pain nullifyer. Rape only happens if there's sexual intercourse involved which biting and draining is not.

              After all Vampires are literary tools that don't mean one thing although they can be about rape if you want them to be but they don't have to be though.
              Last edited by Black Blood; 01-27-2019, 12:54 AM.

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              • #22
                *sighs*

                Ok...Demon the Fallen: its a way to explore sensations that are exclusive to humans..lets get funky
                Hunter The Reckoning: We just killed a monster, i dont know how long we will stay alive, im afraid.. come, hold me... *Cue Sarah Connor + Kyle Reese*
                Wraith. ..ill let rich thomas explain.
                mage the ascension: ....Y'all for real? THERES FOCUS BASED ON BANGING LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!, KAMASUTRA AND FRIGGING TANTRA!
                Changeling the Dreaming: Everyone is bi / LGTB the RPG
                Vampire: Seduction and sex, the best way to attract a victim

                So yeah, sex is kind of important in my games.


                Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
                ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
                Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
                Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

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                • #23
                  Most Vampires in most games I'm in tend to be Asexual after a couple of years (And declining humanity), because sex isn't a drive any more.
                  Vampirism is a great metaphor for sex, but that means it's not sex itself. The feeding can be sexual for the victim, and in drinking, all your urges are being filled, but there's no longer a "Sex drive" as such
                  That being said, my Dark ages character was made mortal for a night (TC Chronicle, attacking Cappadocius in his lair during the day) and most of us spent the rest of the day feasting and fucking to take advantage of the returning urges.
                  He's nominally "straight", but mostly because there wasn't another option when alive, even if he had urges otherwise, and he started being ghouled around puberty anyway.

                  I've had and roleplayed with straight/gay/pansexual/asexual younger vampires but actual "Sex" stopped being in Vampire games once I was in my 20s... before that, for some reason, it was a bigger focus for us to roleplay

                  Werewolf - sex is important, you need to make kinfolk, and some characters (Metis) literally have the urge magnified my the thrall of the Wyrm

                  Current Deadlands game, I have a Texas Ranger that heads to a whorehouse at every reasonable occasion, it started as a 16 y/o "Man" having money and getting what he desired, and has turned in to a 17 year old using pleasure of booze, whores and a good bath to put the monstrosities of the world out of his mind.
                  As far as it's effect on the game, it's more often I just say I'm going to see the "soiled doves" in the town when we have some time in the town, and I cross off some cash from my tally. Having a bath ends up with more interruptions and roleplaying scenes coming from that.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                    Most Vampires in most games I'm in tend to be Asexual after a couple of years (And declining humanity), because sex isn't a drive any more.
                    Vampirism is a great metaphor for sex, but that means it's not sex itself. The feeding can be sexual for the victim, and in drinking, all your urges are being filled, but there's no longer a "Sex drive" as such
                    That being said, my Dark ages character was made mortal for a night (TC Chronicle, attacking Cappadocius in his lair during the day) and most of us spent the rest of the day feasting and fucking to take advantage of the returning urges.
                    He's nominally "straight", but mostly because there wasn't another option when alive, even if he had urges otherwise, and he started being ghouled around puberty anyway.

                    I've had and roleplayed with straight/gay/pansexual/asexual younger vampires but actual "Sex" stopped being in Vampire games once I was in my 20s... before that, for some reason, it was a bigger focus for us to roleplay.
                    I always find it absurd for the entire concept of Kindred having "no sex drive" where you could might as well "Vampires are dead which they can't move or think".

                    Vampires are not metaphors for one thing such as being sex, they are literary tools whatever the author uses them to be which in WW's case though, they were written as "rape metaphors" because WW's writers were being edgelords pretty much along with the fact MRH was writing his religious dogma unto a game that his father influenced him as he admitted himself.

                    Yet I find it even more funny that you regard Kindred as asexual but yet they're "a great metaphor for sex" which sounds like a contradiction there. If Vampire feeding is always "sexual" then should it involve a sex drive before feeding even if the bite is pleasurable? Otherwise them feeding on random people that they especially have no sexual attraction towards is just blood theft especially Vampire Bats have nullifyers when they drink blood as well, might as well call them rapists under that logic.
                    Last edited by Black Blood; 02-01-2019, 11:06 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Black Blood View Post
                      I always find it absurd for the entire concept of Kindred having "no sex drive" where you could might as well "Vampires are dead which they can't move or think".
                      Vampires are inhuman monsters that survive by murdering people - saying they don't get horny is a way to reiterate that theme.

                      Originally posted by Black Blood View Post
                      Yet I find it even more funny that you regard Kindred as asexual but yet they're "a great metaphor for sex" which sounds like a contradiction there.
                      People look at Lucita, Jackson, Beckett, and maybe (shudder) Vykos as sexy, as appealing. Lucita, Jackson, Beckett and totally Vykos look at people as food and victims. The sexual acts in terms of vampires is sex becoming depraved and death.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                        Vampires are inhuman monsters that survive by murdering people - saying they don't get horny is a way to reiterate that theme.
                        Which none of this makes any sense at all, especially the fact that Vampires having sex dates all the way back to folklore especially where do you think Dhampyrs come from then?

                        Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                        People look at Lucita, Jackson, Beckett, and maybe (shudder) Vykos as sexy, as appealing. Lucita, Jackson, Beckett and totally Vykos look at people as food and victims. The sexual acts in terms of vampires is sex becoming depraved and death.
                        Like I said before, that's the way how WW has written Vampires to be because they're being "Dark and Edgy" in poor taste actually.
                        Last edited by Black Blood; 02-01-2019, 01:28 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Black Blood View Post
                          Yet I find it even more funny that you regard Kindred as asexual but yet they're "a great metaphor for sex" which sounds like a contradiction there.
                          Except it's not because:

                          1) That's not how metaphors work.

                          2) Asexual as a sexual identity doesn't mean, "doesn't have sex." Lots of asexual people still have sex; they're just having sex for reasons not primarily driven by libido.

                          ---------

                          It's also kinda silly, when talking about Masquerade, to simultaneously be railing against the authors for making vampires metaphors for unhealthy sex (since it's really broader than just rape, even if rape metaphors is a pithier phrase), and going on about how vampires aren't inherently metaphors for such things. It doesn't matter what else they can be metaphors for abstractly, if we all agree that at least in part, VtM vampires are in fact sexual metaphors.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Black Blood
                            Then again if anyone of you keep referring Vampires as "Rape Metaphors" then don't you think you have a hard time defending your own game where you play as rapists pretty much?
                            While some archetipes may not be good rape methapors (i.e. those who fight against their instincts, for whom drinking people it's trully involuntary), others can be. For instance: A "noble" vampire that enjoys every moment of drinking from the weak minded "kine" (vampires think of human as "cows", that's not just food but also a "property") Abusing Disciplines and bondage because, why not?. I think that would get one in the methaporical zone to play a rapist.

                            And as how would I defend that?: It's fun to play the opressor sometimes.

                            Hence regarding the Second Inquisition as a metaphor for the "MeToo" movement or "SJWs are striking back at us" or "Why can't you lets us be Men/Vampires?"
                            You seem to be under the impression that one needs to care about the rights or freedom of women (or people) in order to condemn rape. This is a wrong, and very simplistic, impression. Society has condemned rape since before the concept of patriarchy was coined ... for other reasons, of course.
                            To provide one theory: Rape was condemned because women are the property of the patriarch, a term, BTW, which refers to the "paterfamilias" (not to "everyman"). Standard patriarchal systems would collapse if rape wasn't vilified and condemned because it's an action that goes against the "sexual proprietary rights" that defines women as owned by either their father or their husband (Patriarchy 101)...

                            Hence I don't see why SI figthing against vampires has to be understood as them caring for the "rights of humans" rather than them being "human supremacists". Personally, I like the later (as a generalization, of course), after all they're a combination of religious fanatics and notoriously imperialistic agencies.

                            But then, I'm Human, and thus whatever their motives may be I declare:"The SI did nothing wrong!"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                              While some archetipes may not be good rape methapors (i.e. those who fight against their instincts, for whom drinking people it's trully involuntary), others can be. For instance: A "noble" vampire that enjoys every moment of drinking from the weak minded "kine" (vampires think of human as "cows", that's not just food but also a "property") Abusing Disciplines and bondage because, why not?. I think that would get one in the methaporical zone to play a rapist.

                              And as how would I defend that?: It's fun to play the opressor sometimes.
                              Then again, Vampires are only rape metaphors if you want them to be which in my case I rather prefer not to.

                              Also glad to hear some honesty here that people rather want to play as oppressors instead of liberators or survivors that is which says alot pretty much.

                              Originally posted by Aleph View Post
                              You seem to be under the impression that one needs to care about the rights or freedom of women (or people) in order to condemn rape. This is a wrong, and very simplistic, impression. Society has condemned rape since before the concept of patriarchy was coined ... for other reasons, of course.
                              To provide one theory: Rape was condemned because women are the property of the patriarch, a term, BTW, which refers to the "paterfamilias" (not to "everyman"). Standard patriarchal systems would collapse if rape wasn't vilified and condemned because it's an action that goes against the "sexual proprietary rights" that defines women as owned by either their father or their husband (Patriarchy 101)...

                              Hence I don't see why SI figthing against vampires has to be understood as them caring for the "rights of humans" rather than them being "human supremacists". Personally, I like the later (as a generalization, of course), after all they're a combination of religious fanatics and notoriously imperialistic agencies.

                              But then, I'm Human, and thus whatever their motives may be I declare:"The SI did nothing wrong!"
                              Sure I'm well aware that patrarichy and the way they "condemn" rape the same as breaking something at a store and you have to pay for it hence the instances of rape victims being forced to marry their rapists that is which is still rather victim blaming on the victim's part that is.

                              But still given the context and place that who wrote V5 however especially with their associations with the Alt-Right, their means of using the SI becomes rather questionable though especially what litarary tool they've written vampires to be in their context.

                              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                              That's not how metaphors work.

                              VtM vampires are in fact sexual metaphors.
                              I'm fully aware how metaphors work since Vampires are literary tools whatever the author chooses to write them as which in this case the writers of VtM have chosen to write them as abuse/rape metaphors like I said before it's their attempt being edgy for the sake being edgy.
                              Last edited by Black Blood; 02-01-2019, 06:23 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Black Blood View Post
                                Then again, Vampires are only rape metaphors if you want them to be which in my case I rather prefer not to.
                                OK, I think we all get that you don't like your vampires are sexual predator metaphors. The problem is you're taking it from "I don't like this," to arguing all sorts of questionable positions relating to the state of VtM where vampires are such.

                                You can just say, "I don't like vampires as this sort of metaphor, and so when play VtM I do my best to excise those elements," and move on. Everything else makes it seem like you have more agenda... and I'm having trouble seeing anything positive about what that might be.

                                I'm fully aware how metaphors work since Vampires are literary tools whatever the author chooses to write them as which in this case the writers of VtM have chosen to write them as abuse/rape metaphors like I said before it's their attempt being edgy for the sake being edgy.
                                And yet... you're demonstrating no use of awareness of how metaphors work, and the rest of this is a non-sequitur.

                                You opinions on the authors' motivations aren't showing that you get how metaphors work and what the implications of those metaphor are.

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