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  • What would you want from a WoD show?

    Hypothetically - and this is pure fan wishing here - say Netflix or Hulu or a similar company announced a World of Darkness show. It going to be 10 or 12 episodes long, and have a reasonable budget. The sky is not the limit here; you cannot cast dead actors, hire impossible directors, or anything out of bounds for Netflix of Hulu. But it is a World of Darkness program.


    What would you want from such a program?





  • #2
    Shades of grey within the individual characters. The main cast should all have moments of monstrous horror as well as sympathetic moments. The slipping of humanity, the misdirected Rage of a failing guardian, the twisted results of Hubris following a Paradox and the nightmare fuel created by trying to avoid breaking the paradigm. And that is just the Big Three; not that I imagine the show would focus on more than one. (Maybe a second splat if they get a second season, for said season).

    I want quality writing that showcases what makes WoD different from any other urban fantasy and remembers it is a setting that is compelling. That yes, the protagonist aren't the strongest or the smartest but they try and make moral compromise. That most antagonists are your neighbours and are sympathetic. That it is a crapsack world, but it doesn't have to be for you and yours if you pay the price. That You can make a difference if you risk everything. That even the monsters are afraid, because they KNOW.

    I want a show that captures that feeling.

    And of course, consistency. It is very annoying when shows controdict their characters established personalities without explanation or disregard their own cannon.


    Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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    • #3
      I'd do 3 episode arcs that slip from one game to another. LIke start with something like Bloodlines where a newly embraced Kindred is learning the ropes, sprinkle in the werewolf fight before wrapping it up, then jump to spring off the werewolf fight to cover the werewolf situation in game, have some mage stuff hinted at in the background of the werewolf stuff then move forward into that as it wraps up, ghosts from there, changelings from there..

      Comment


      • #4
        If you want to explore as much of the World of Darkness as possible then I’d say the protagonist should be a mortal who gets dragged into the weirdness by some event and is now seeking answers. Think the origin for a typical Hunter only without the Messengers or them getting super powers.

        Then have them encounter all the various splats in their search. By keeping the supernatural largely in the shadows you save big on the budget.

        Option B (and my personal preference) would be to do a Mage the Ascension series. My reasons for this are...

        A) the base cosmology of “everything man has ever believed in is real” is the easiest for incorporating all the other splats into various episodes.

        B) coincidental magick lets you keep the FX budget down while still allowing supernatural elements into the plots (while still allowing flashy vulgar magick and paradox backlashes for climaxes).

        C) it’s the splat that could most benefit from seeing it actually used in stories where you don’t have dice or internal monologues to explain what’s going on.

        D) It’s also the splat that would most allow the protagonist to interact with their old life/non-supernaturals (vampires have that daylight issue, werewolves get incorporated into a pack and the FX budget for Crinos forms and banes makes it problematic anyway, wraiths have the shroud of death between them and their past life) because compare and contrast between the normal world and the supernatural one is important in framing things.

        My protagonist would be an ordinary guy who awakens over the course of the pilot while interacting with a couple of the more extreme ends of Tradition paradigms (a Hermetic, a Virtual Adept and a Celestial Chorus for example) and plan it around four seasons based on primary antagonist.

        First season would be Tradition politics. Late in the season I’d start to introduce the Technocracy as a boogeyman and then reveal the Technocracy in the finale. Season two would have the Technocracy as the main antagonist with continued pressure finally causing one of the protagonists to snap and go Marauder in the finale. Season three would see the Technocrats and Traditions have to join forces to deal with the Marauder (and get into the Umbra and “zooterrorism” with more magical creatures brought into the world by their madness) with hints of more sinister forces working behind the scenes. The final season would see a Nephandi make its move after having manipulated events throughout the series to bring about a long-planned end.

        That feels like a good place to end it; before you run out of ideas and have to drag the carcass of your series across the finish line. 52 episodes should be enough.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would ask for something that focused on vampires in the first season. It would have two or three point of view characters. The audience would learn about the world of vampires at the same rate as the characters. Exposition would be avoided as much as possible.

          While it would have moments of levity and humanity, it would end with hard-core horror and tragedy. No one achieves redemption. The most decent of the PV degenerates into a pure monster (but not into a wight) and murders the other two characters for the amusement of the elders. Cut to black and end of show.

          Further seasons would focus on other splats.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd back Mage. Mostly, because the other splats (with the possible exception of Changeling) wouldn't translate well to a tv show, I think. The vamps and werewolves are just too unrelatable in their WoD form, to the average viewer. They're too monstrous. Just look back how all the popular tv shows handled these themes in the past years. Their monster protagonists are much more humane than the WoD ones. That, or the shows are centered around one or more human protagonist and the monsters are supporting characters. I think the radical otherness of these creatures could work well in a movie (as it did many times), but on the long run, again, the average viewer would have a hard time to relate to them. Just think about VtM's setting, groups and characters. Most viewers would assume these are the bad guys and wonder where are the heroes? Also, if the creators would make them less monstrous in turn and more relatable, that'd cheapen WoD's themes and setting a lot.

            Think about Spike and Angel in Buffy even. There were some serious shenanigans to make them more human in the story, than the other vamps.

            Werewolf culture and mindset is just too alien.

            Mage, on the other hand. You can do a lot with "a bunch of Orphans, against the stuffy Traditions and opressive Technocracy and finding their own truths" theme. They are human, they're reletable on many levels. You can bring in the other supnats, the umbra, practically everything the WoD has.


            If nothing worked, then let's think!

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            • #7
              A Vampire show that later opens then door for possible spin offs, because it's the simplest concept to sell someone on. Something that, at least for the first season, adheres to the principle of Keep It Simple. It is about vampires and their sociopolitical interactions with each other, most likely with a just embraced character as the POV for the first few episodes (possibly not even embraced til the end of the first episode, unless the show is going to be flashback heavy). Clans would be explained, but as a secondary thing later. To start, it's more a world of the beautiful people socialites and the down to earth street people, with some on the fringes. And when clans do get explained, you find that they don't fit into the above boxes as neatly as one expects. While one of our beautiful people characters is a Tremere, when you meet the rest of her clan, they are fringe weirdos who keep to themselves in their chantry, just for one example. I'd keep the main cast to maybe eight.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                I'd back Mage. Mostly, because the other splats (with the possible exception of Changeling) wouldn't translate well to a tv show, I think. The vamps and werewolves are just too unrelatable in their WoD form, to the average viewer. They're too monstrous. Just look back how all the popular tv shows handled these themes in the past years. Their monster protagonists are much more humane than the WoD ones. That, or the shows are centered around one or more human protagonist and the monsters are supporting characters. I think the radical otherness of these creatures could work well in a movie (as it did many times), but on the long run, again, the average viewer would have a hard time to relate to them. Just think about VtM's setting, groups and characters. Most viewers would assume these are the bad guys and wonder where are the heroes? Also, if the creators would make them less monstrous in turn and more relatable, that'd cheapen WoD's themes and setting a lot.
                I think that the majority of characters in the World of Darkness aren't monstrous. Many are selfish or are villains, but they aren't monsters.
                You could make a theme in a World of Darkness TV show that the Nightfolk - "Those that have knowledge and power beyond that of mere mortals..." - stick together and cover for each other . I browsed through the first Cult of Ecstasy Tradition Book today and it is written there that some of the Ecstatic Mages consider Toreador Vampires to be persons who can feel and comprehend what Ecstatics call the Pulse of Lakashim ( the pulse of reality / existence / creation ) ( page 43 ) . I think Vampires would make great main characters / protagonists for a TV series or a movie. Garou are also viable and I think they would be very interesting.

                Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
                Option B (and my personal preference) would be to do a Mage the Ascension series. (...)
                First season would be Tradition politics. Late in the season I’d start to introduce the Technocracy as a boogeyman and then reveal the Technocracy in the finale. (...)
                A Technocracy reveal in the season finale ! Do you mean something like this ?

                One of the main characters ( or the main character ) is pulled over while driving or walking the sidewalk back home, the Technocrats posing as secret service agents approach her ( or him ) , and with a slight half appeal to politeness half implied threat manage to get her to come into their car. After a few difficult and mocking questions, the Mage tries to use Mind Magick to make the Technocrats let her go, but they only exchange a look with each other and ignore this attempt. After a few more question is answered by the Mage again with lies and non-committal sentences, one of the Technocrats reveals his brightly lit cybernetic implant eye, which scans the Mage's own eyes and confirms that they statements that she has said were made with the intent of deception. The Mage focuses, holding her hand on her Foci in his pocket, trying to contact first her Cabal, then her mentor. However, before she succeeds, the glass separating the front of the car from the back slides down, and a White Suit sitting in the front passenger seat Unweaves / disables the Correspondence Connection with a combination of technology, skepticism, mockery, and statements undermining the mystical assumptions of the Mystic Mage. The White Suit warns her to not to try any Magick, and she nods to this as she notices the lack of her Correspondence Connection and his confidence.

                The character is taken to a hearing in a Technocratic outpost ( not a Construct ) ; where she is also given an injection which disables their Correspondence Connection to persons that she knows for the long-term ( a whole season, or two ) She is misled and intimidated into answering many, many questions, which allows the White Suit to analyze them and come to some conclusions. As the White Suit puts it, "In a way, we figured out more about you than you know about yourself." . Then she is let out, as - other than possibly being exploited by other Mystics, who now can't contact the character from a distance - the character is deemed to be no threat or obstacle to the Technocracy's plans. She is informed that the questioning done is more than enough to allow Technocracy to influence her in the future, and that she should remember this, as she might need it. As the character comes back to her apartment or house she sees that her room is tidy but clearly ransacked. All of her Foci except the unique / personal ones are gone, and also most of mundane utility items: toothbrush, microwave, all tableware except one spoon, one fork, one knife, one plate, phone charger etc. But some books on science, history, sociology, psychology, and economy, and a wallet with a thick wad of money in it are left next to the bed.



                I will think later what sort of Enlightened Science Effects ( other than a cybernetic implant eye ) would be most appropriate and impressive for Technocrats to demonstrate as they are introduced.

                I wrote about the possibility of Technocrats in a TV series ( or a movie ) in another thread.

                Also I think a must would have been to show different kind of Technocrats. One interested primarily in Enlightened Science and science, "deceive the mundane humans for their own good" ruthless one, an idealist, and a middle-ground one, for example. The first Conventions shown would be the New World Order and the Syndicate. Then Technocrats from the other three Conventions would show up in the same episode to demonstrate the capabilities and methods of the Technocracy to the fullest.
                Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-01-2019, 03:54 AM.

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                • #9
                  I'd love a World of Darkness show with a focus on a Sleepwalking mundane character, one who can see and retain his experiences of the supernatural. This would be a great way to introduce the audience to a wide range of themes and character types. Rogue Vampire serial killings, Werewolf industrial sabotage, Mage thefts of occult artifacts, Changeling upheavals in the arts community, even Wraith or Orpheus pushed murder investigations, or Mummy earth shaking actions to maintain the Balance of the universe. And The Imbued or groups like the Arcanum or Society of St Leopold would always be in the shadows as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
                    (...)
                    My protagonist would be an ordinary guy who awakens over the course of the pilot while interacting with a couple of the more extreme ends of Tradition paradigms (a Hermetic, a Virtual Adept and a Celestial Chorus for example) and plan it around four seasons based on primary antagonist.
                    (...)
                    In a Mage TV series or a movie series, I would much prefer for the main character(s) to be an experienced young Mage of the Traditions or the Technocracy. I think that between ten to twenty years of being a Mage and being a member her ( or his ) faction would be good.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I remember in Babylon 5, during Season 1, G'Kar was almost a Villian, and Londo was a sympathetic looser. By the end of the series, they'd gone and completely reversed that.

                      Ie, for Vampire I'd want something similar. The 'villian' at the beginning being an Anarch Vampire. The Sheriff is after him. by the end, the Anarch has saved a number of others from the plotting of the Sheriff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd like a thematic mix between The Lost Boys, Aliens, The Crow, Terminator and the Sopranos. I'd like for it to be focused on one or two characters, but for the subtle hints at a larger world throughout the show.


                        PENTEX SUCKS.

                        I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post

                          I think that the majority of characters in the World of Darkness aren't monstrous. Many are selfish or are villains, but they aren't monsters.
                          You could make a theme in a World of Darkness TV show that the Nightfolk - "Those that have knowledge and power beyond that of mere mortals..." - stick together and cover for each other . I browsed through the first Cult of Ecstasy Tradition Book today and it is written there that some of the Ecstatic Mages consider Toreador Vampires to be persons who can feel and comprehend what Ecstatics call the Pulse of Lakashim ( the pulse of reality / existence / creation ) ( page 43 ) . I think Vampires would make great main characters / protagonists for a TV series or a movie. Garou are also viable and I think they would be very interesting.
                          Thing is, IMo, they are much more monstrous, or, rather, alien, than the average audience is accostumed to nowadays. Just take a look at other vampire/shapeshifter themed tv-shows. Vampires walking around in daylight, eating human food, acting like humans, having human-like relationships (with humans). The general downplaying of the drawbacks of being a vamp, or shapeshifter, or magic-user. Blame Twilight (althopugh, as I've mentioned, Buffy did this too, back in the day), but this is a trend now. Most of them even made the protagonists deliberately ones whom distanced themselves from their kind's society, because they want to live like (and among) humans. They want to make the monsters less monstrous, more relatable, basicaly cool, slightly edgy superheroes with some quirks.

                          I'm not saying, you couldn't do the more humane angle with Vampire (it's doable, with thinbloods, or neonates), but I'm saying it likely wouldn't do justice to the source material.

                          Honestly, the only two supernatural/urban fantasy-themed tv series I've seen in the past several years, which were "dark", were Bitten, The Magicians and Constantine. With movies, it's better.

                          So, I'm saying a VtM series would be either a watered-down version of VtM, with Vampire Diaries-like characters and it would be awful, or it'd do justice to the game, would be a fan-favorite and critically acclaimed (with the usual grumblings on the side of being too edgy), but wouldn't get past the first season.

                          Mage, IMO, is much more easy to do and make the characters realatable to the average viewer (since they are literally humans), that's why The Magicians worked (and even that goes into silliness from time-to-time, the books are much more serious).
                          Last edited by PMárk; 01-01-2019, 03:37 PM.


                          If nothing worked, then let's think!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Would 'Happy' be a Changeling series?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                              Thing is, IMo, they are much more monstrous, or, rather, alien, than the average audience is accostumed to nowadays. Just take a look at other vampire/shapeshifter themed tv-shows. Vampires walking around in daylight, eating human food, acting like humans, having human-like relationships (with humans). The general downplaying of the drawbacks of being a vamp, or shapeshifter, or magic-user. Blame Twilight (althopugh, as I've mentioned, Buffy did this too, back in the day), but this is a trend now. Most of them even made the protagonists deliberately ones whom distanced themselves from their kind's society, because they want to live like (and among) humans. They want to make the monsters less monstrous, more relatable, basicaly cool, slightly edgy superheroes with some quirks.

                              I'm not saying, you couldn't do the more humane angle with Vampire (it's doable, with thinbloods, or neonates), but I'm saying it likely wouldn't do justice to the source material.
                              I think that you could give the characters in the show interests, hobbies, or habits that would make them more relatable, if this was needed. I think that because of Clans, Sects, and different positions that a Vampire can hold in a Clan and in a city, there are lots of varied and interesting traits and characteristics that a character can have, that would make them both relatable and distinct.

                              Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                              Honestly, the only two supernatural/urban fantasy-themed tv series I've seen in the past several years, which were "dark", were Bitten, The Magicians and Constantine. With movies, it's better.
                              What dark supernatural / urban fantasy movies would you recommend ?

                              Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                              So, I'm saying a VtM series would be either a watered-down version of VtM, with Vampire Diaries-like characters and it would be awful, or it'd do justice to the game, would be a fan-favorite and critically acclaimed (with the usual grumblings on the side of being too edgy), but wouldn't get past the first season.
                              Even if it happens that it doesn't get past the first season, it is stil worth it to do it in the right way . In fact, a Toreador could voice this outlook / sentiment in the first episode ( or one of the first ) - "If you paint this way and about these subjects, then these paintings will get you true fans and critical acclaim, but they will not get exhibited for more than a few weeks." Then two Toreador Vampires could talk about the arguments for and against each approach.

                              Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                              Mage, IMO, is much more easy to do and make the characters realatable to the average viewer (since they are literally humans) (...)
                              I think that Mages are not simply human ; they are Mages . They are separate and distanced - because of many and varied reasons - from mundane humans to an extent not seen in regard to spellcasters in any other fiction.
                              Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-02-2019, 05:23 AM.

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