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Demons in a Vampire game

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  • Demons in a Vampire game

    I'm looking for a way to represent Demons in a California/Los Angeles Vampire game, but without having to buy, read and understand full demon rules to represent them. (V20 rules)

    I've already party reworked a simplified way to deal with Mages and Werewolves so that they're thematically the same as their official splats but mechanically simpler, but I have a limited knowledge of Demon:The Fallen to work with.

    Does anyone have suggestions for me? I know that Crowley seems to have a solid interest in both Demon and Vampire
    Last edited by Illithid; 01-03-2019, 07:20 PM. Reason: Grammar mistake.

  • #2
    All demons have the following powers : 1) Immunity from mind control (Presence, Dominate, Obfuscate), 2) They sense supernatural powers used in their vicinity, 3) They can always hear when someone is speaking their Angelic name. 4) When in Apocalyptic Form, they soak lethal and emit True Faith.

    They have the following weaknesses : 1) Unless they are in Apocalyptic Form, they soak like humans do. 2) If you know their True Name you can force them to do whatever you want. 3) They can be immobilized by any "holy" prayer, banished is subject to said prayer for long enough, and cannot enter holy ground. The prayer does not actually requires Faith but strength of will.

    Vampires and demons : 1) Demons cannot get Faith from vampires, 2) They can make pacts however and 3) I don't know if vampires can recite prayers to immobilize them but I guess yes. A vampire cannot embrace a demon, a demon cannot possess a vampire under normal circumstances.

    You may use some thaumaturgy paths for some of them. All demons have access to Auspex, Celerity and Potence.
    • First House Demons can probably work with Lure of Flame or Koldunic Sorcery (Fire) + Presence + Valeren.
    • Second House Demons have Koldunic Sorcery (Air) + Obeah + Thauma rituals like Scry.
    • Third House has Koldunic Sorcery (Earth) + Any rituals that allow them to make enchanted stuffs or act on objects (ex : Preserve) + Any thauma/ritual/discipline power that allow to go through walls, meld with the ground or open a door to another part of your house.
    • Fourth house has high auspex/the dementation powers that go with puzzles, maybe some Temporis, can teleport and make portals + they create light
    • Fifth house High Presence + emotion based Dementation + Koldunic Sorcery (Water)/Weather Thaumaturgy + Obfuscate
    • Sixth House has Animalism + Proteism + Vicissitude as well as any thaumaturgy that deals with plants.
    • The Seventh House has access to all Necromancy path and disciplines that have anything to do with the dead.
    They all have one Apocalyptic Form. All Apocalyptic form should use at least one high level discipline power (Majesty, Zulo form, Dark Metamorphosis, Mythic Form in some cases...). Demons using this form usually have higher stats (+1 in one to three attributes, 2+ in one to two attributes). They can heal all damages with little Faith.

    Demons burn Faith in order to use their powers. They can gather Faith either with crude revelation or with pacts. Keep in mind Vampires don't give faith, so if a demon makes a pact they will want something else from them (money, power, support, protection, help against a rival...).

    Demons have Torment which is basically their Trauma being a bitch. It's not exactly like the Beast though, since Torment is how much a Demon remembers its suffering and how much this suffering twists him.

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    • #3
      Kalendeer Thank you, that is a great summary.
      Which house would Lucifer belong to? As the Lightbringer, I assume the Forth one you listed?

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      • #4
        Officially Lucifer is of the first house (fire, light, first and fourth house issue is a bit weird), but the Lightbringer is kind of an special case in DtF. If you ask about capabilities, Lucifer is the fallen that doesn't get stats. Assume mastery at all demon powers, plus whatever seems to fit the narrative. If you want more concrete details on him, I can go into it, but I think it's best to pretend he is a much more active Caine.

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        • #5
          Lucifer doesn't have stats because the players can chose what those are. Several possibilities in the game are that he is very powerful or that he burnt all his powers when he appeared in Los Angeles.

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          • #6
            WHO HAS SUMMONED THY?!.. Oh..Whats up, what may i do for ya.

            Lucifer its a Devil House.
            Demons LOATHE Vampires since they represent the betrayal of god and the self canibalization on humans


            Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
            ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
            Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
            Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

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            • #7
              I don't remember Demons specifically loathing vampires in any of the DtF books I read. I think the problem would probably be that they would aim for the same resources.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kalendeer View Post
                I don't remember Demons specifically loathing vampires in any of the DtF books I read. I think the problem would probably be that they would aim for the same resources.

                Think about it for a moment. Demons used to be angels, they felt nothing more but pain and wrath and emotions they coudnt handle when Caine axed Abel...Imagine how they would feel if they saw something like a vampire, an aberration, a monstruosity that represent a leech consuming everything the Elohim Fell for.


                Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
                ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
                Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
                Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crowley View Post


                  Think about it for a moment. Demons used to be angels, they felt nothing more but pain and wrath and emotions they coudnt handle when Caine axed Abel...Imagine how they would feel if they saw something like a vampire, an aberration, a monstruosity that represent a leech consuming everything the Elohim Fell for.
                  On the other hand, vampires are cursed by God (just like the Fallen were unjustly cast into the abysses). While it would be understandable that most Fallen would despise those who embrace the Cruse, I think they can feel some kind of kinship toward those who were Embraced against their will. A fallen angel and a humanist vampire may be found trying to walk the path toward redemption together.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kalendeer View Post
                    I don't remember Demons specifically loathing vampires in any of the DtF books I read. I think the problem would probably be that they would aim for the same resources.
                    It actually is mentioned in the demon core book's section on vampires. Demon's essentially react to vampires the way humans react to spiders, I.E. "Kill it with Fire!".

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prometheas View Post

                      It actually is mentioned in the demon core book's section on vampires. Demon's essentially react to vampires the way humans react to spiders, I.E. "Kill it with Fire!".
                      Do you have the page number for the quote ? I've searched in my pdf copy but can't find it and the search function doesn't work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kalendeer View Post

                        Do you have the page number for the quote ? I've searched in my pdf copy but can't find it and the search function doesn't work.
                        They never actually say "kill it with Fire", I was making a joke. Demons do hate vampires though, their relationship is described in "The Storyteller's Companion" book for demon on pg. 66

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                        • #13
                          What I read from these parts is not that that Demons have a problem with vampires for what they are ("they know how vengeful a cruel Creator can be") but rather that they are usually competitors for the sames resources. It's less an ideological opposition than a practical one.

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                          • #14
                            Hello and here's my two oboli on this subject,
                            The DTF ST companion answer your question I believe .
                            Originally posted by Demon The fallen - Storyteller's Companion page 68-69
                            Demon and the kindred are competitors for the same prize _____ mankind and all it has to offer. Both groups are highly territorial, prideful and more than willing to resort to violence if
                            threatened.

                            ....

                            So far, any attempts at détente between a kindred and a court in a given town or city have broken down into outright conflict.
                            This is not to say that all demon-vampire relations are ultimately destructive.
                            Some of the fallen, particularly of the Reconciler faction, have forged ties with individual vampires, hoping to use their lore to restore the kindred's humanity in exchange for knowledge and support as the demon try to further their agenda worldwide.So far, these efforts at returning the undead to life have failed.


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                            • #15
                              For a Vampire game specifically I would perhaps suggest Devil’s Due which is a Dark Ages: Vampire supplement about Demons, the rules differ quite a bit from those of modern DtF but work quite well with Vampire.

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