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The best parts of 20th editions

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  • The best parts of 20th editions



    There has been a lot of negativity with the way the first crew who handled WoD under Paradox failed. However, let us remember why the new editions titled under 20th edition brand are so good and popular.

    1. nWoD mentality with the setting. nWoD's best part is that it doesn't concern itself with making everything fit the setting perfectly. This means the writers can more easily create new aspects without constantly worrying how it fits into everything.


    2. If it is statted, you can play it. I remember before v20, the common joke was that the game sure offered lots of cool things, but forbid anyone from playing them. There was also a feeling that if you played anything from the norm, you were a Special Snowflake. This could even include lupus or metis garou. These days, things have relaxed visibly and the setting didn't collapse if someone wanted to play a Camazotz or a Kiyasyd.


    3. Fairer global treatment. WoD has always been a setting of the world, but prior to 20th edition, it never actually dug deeply into non-western countries. Or if it did, it didn't utilize locals or local stories. These days, it is clear that the writers do try to look into local legends and cultures, making the setting feel more alive.


    4. Fixing Changeling the Dreaming. Yes, this is game specific, but CtD is one of those games that often was 50% House Rules in online games. So it is such a joy to see how the setting has been wrangled into a working and less fractured whole.


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  • #2
    The best part?

    That they were still the old WW games, with updated rules and story. Even with going for a different visual presentation, which I didn't always like, they were still the same games. They added new stuff and compounded old stuff and didn't attempt to rewrite the whole thing. V20 is still the Vampire I loved, M20 is still the Mage I loved, etc. C20 updated a game always getting the shorter end a lot. W20, liked very much, probably even more than the older stuff, for the slightly more hopeful tone.

    So, the best part of them, for me, is that I've seen that they were the same games I loved, with new and updated stuff, after a long hiatus, while in the new stuff done by the Paradox-WW people, I see that the stuff they're doing is based on the games and setting I loved, but it's not the same and I don't particularly care for their version, in comparison.

    This is the most important factor for me. Everything else is just details of that.
    Last edited by PMárk; 06-16-2019, 11:35 AM.


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    • #3
      To add to things:

      Prove that the WoD is still alive and strong, and isn't mutually exclusive with the CofD.

      Without the success of V20 there wouldn't be enough 20th books to see them as an "edition." Without the success of the 20th line, the WoD would have been left to get some minor support in places like the STV and otherwise been left to go fallow. it shouldn't be understated or overlooked that a love letter to the fans in 2011 is the reason the WoD is back in the mainstream in 2019.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
        To add to things:

        Prove that the WoD is still alive and strong, and isn't mutually exclusive with the CofD.

        Without the success of V20 there wouldn't be enough 20th books to see them as an "edition." Without the success of the 20th line, the WoD would have been left to get some minor support in places like the STV and otherwise been left to go fallow. it shouldn't be understated or overlooked that a love letter to the fans in 2011 is the reason the WoD is back in the mainstream in 2019.
        Mind, we needed the ten year break. We needed to have the nWoD setting be an example of how to do WoD without all the restrictions of cWoD had.

        But yeah, V20 was a beautiful start to this.

        Also, thought this might be just for the W20 blog; LISTENING to requests of clarifications/explanations. I've said it so many times, but I am so very glad that my requests to clarify purebreed and whether lupus can read or not were listened to.


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        • #5
          Honestly, I never found really convincing the notion that the 20ths are "like NWoD". The one thing they don't have is the strong metaplot in the centre and even then, they had metaplot and yes, anything new added on that front was treated as optional, not "strong canon". Still, it never went to the same length of toolbox-ness NWoD did, it remained a codified setting, with well-defined elements.

          Also, I'd agree absolutely, that another thing absolutely preach-worthy of the 20ths is that they brought back CWoD at the first place and showed that it could coexist with NWoD, that the two scrathes different itches and absolutely have their own niche and place along each other. Pity WW seems not to understand that, really.


          If nothing worked, then let's think!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PMárk View Post
            Honestly, I never found really convincing the notion that the 20ths are "like NWoD". The one thing they don't have is the strong metaplot in the centre and even then, they had metaplot and yes, anything new added on that front was treated as optional, not "strong canon". Still, it never went to the same length of toolbox-ness NWoD did, it remained a codified setting, with well-defined elements.
            For me, it is the sense of freedom in a lot of the stuff in the 20th editions. It is hard to explain, but a lot of stuff added feels more relaxed and free. Like there isn't a huge pressure to have everything fit just right. Plus, more imaginative new things, such as Lycians for C20.


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            • #7
              I think another way to put it, is that the 20th line looked at the 13 years of the original WoD run, saw how big the WoD was both internally and how broadly the fans used it, and the creative teams generally said, "lets do our best to do justice to all of that." They're not an attempt to distill anything, or refocus anything, or anything like that. They're books all about making sure that if you liked something about the WoD, it's in them somewhere (at least for the lines that got updated). The 20th books might not be a toolkit proper like the CofD, but they're at least a toolkit for "pick and choose what you liked from the original line."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                I think another way to put it, is that the 20th line looked at the 13 years of the original WoD run, saw how big the WoD was both internally and how broadly the fans used it, and the creative teams generally said, "lets do our best to do justice to all of that." They're not an attempt to distill anything, or refocus anything, or anything like that. They're books all about making sure that if you liked something about the WoD, it's in them somewhere (at least for the lines that got updated). The 20th books might not be a toolkit proper like the CofD, but they're at least a toolkit for "pick and choose what you liked from the original line."
                What is really cool, is that fans have actually embraced it. It used to be VERY rare to see kiasyd characters in VtM games, but these days they are around. The stigma is far less heavy.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

                  What is really cool, is that fans have actually embraced it. It used to be VERY rare to see kiasyd characters in VtM games, but these days they are around. The stigma is far less heavy.

                  I would say before Lore of the bloodlines they functionally were "Npc exposition Bloodline" they didn't interact. They collected Lore. Oh they also had a weird discipline they could hit you over the head with for not obeying the Storyteller. That was one of the big attitude changes that really shined on the v20 line dropping the lore for the sake of lore things..vs "this is a game people want to play things"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                    The best part?

                    That they were still the old WW games, with updated rules and story. Even with going for a different visual presentation, which I didn't always like, they were still the same games. They added new stuff and compounded old stuff and didn't attempt to rewrite the whole thing. V20 is still the Vampire I loved, M20 is still the Mage I loved, etc. C20 updated a game always getting the shorter end a lot. W20, liked very much, probably even more than the older stuff, for the slightly more hopeful tone.

                    So, the best part of them, for me, is that I've seen that they were the same games I loved, with new and updated stuff, after a long hiatus, while in the new stuff done by the Paradox-WW people, I see that the stuff they're doing is based on the games and setting I loved, but it's not the same and I don't particularly care for their version, in comparison.

                    This is the most important factor for me. Everything else is just details of that.
                    Just liking this didn’t do it justice. So quote for truth on my part.

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