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What are we missing to complete the Dark Ages Setting?

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  • What are we missing to complete the Dark Ages Setting?

    What things are we Missing to make the Dark Age line complete? Now I think it could go indefinitely so I don't really think we could get a true complete but we can come close by touching a lot of bases.

    So one big thing I remember people wanting across the decades was a Wraith the Dark Ages Book, it would be hella interesting to see the perspective of the ghosts of the age. The lands of the Living are far different back in the preindustrial past, and the lands of the dead perhaps lived even more in the shadow of Rome then the Skinlnds. The Dark Ages could even be viewed by some wraiths as a post apocalyptic age and they view the fall of Rome as the end of the world, but Rome didn't really fall it just changed into something else, it became a series of states and kingdoms and empires. But it would interesting perhaps in the Dark Ages there existed a more vestiges of mythical time, so ties to Hades spoken by the dead of stygia, talk of Christ, the clash of Barbarians and Pagans who died rather then convert. Some displays of forgotten powers, Ferrymen in the form of Brynhilda, ect. Lots of potential. And I really want to see interaction of Ghosts that exist in the Shadowlands rather then the Dark Kingdoms proper. And the Other Dark Kingdoms! They could be in the peak of some of their power! How does the Silk Road effect them?

    Somewhat tying into that it would be cool to get a Mummy books covering mummy history of the City of Amenti, the Web of Faith, Caibiri immortals, and the Wu Tian.
    We had silk Road for the Kindred of the East but it couldn't hurt to get another book to supplement that!

    People have wanted a Kingdom of the Jaguar setting book for Central America as a Psuedo Dark Ages. I think a Rage Across India type setting book would be cool but I'm always pitching that. A Dark Age Asia book would be nice covering China, Japan the Himalayas and the Mongol Hordes. It would be an excuse to touch upon the Hsien in the Age of Fae and how they perhaps are closer to the Fae then they were to Changelings or maybe how they were changelings before the Fae took that up. And update more of the Wan Kuei.


    Oh and don't forget a Book on Sorcery and maybe Cults would be very very useful! Just use it as an excuse to expand upon Sorcerer Revised, Cover Sorcery, Psychics, and Numina as well as the cults that could form around them and the spirits.

    Maybe a Book that talks about how the World of Darkness Transitioned from the Dark Age Paradigm to the Modern. So we already covered a lot of the clans, but its interesting how the last couple of books talked about what ifs if some clans never were wiped out and how they could be played in the modern Era. How Fae became Changelings. How Mages abandoned Foundations and chose spheres.

    Maybe a book just expanding the Mage setting adding Fellowships from Asia Africa and the distant shores of the Americas?

    I feel like there is so much more we can play with!


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    The Ashen Lady, a sourcebook about women and their place in the various areas of Medieval European society (which is a lot more diverse and interesting than pop culture history would have you believe), stuff to think about and consider when making/playing women characters, why a lot of the "rules" of gender roles and expectations tend to go out the window when talking about Kindred (and Garou, Mages, etc.), some special attention to groups like the Lamia and Black Furies, possibly introduce the Sisters of Hippolyta as a fellowship.

    Dark Ages: Werewolf Companion, with all the stuff we'd normally expect from such a thing. The Medieval European Fera (primarily focused on the Corax, Ratkin, the Cealican in all their wonderful feycat glory, and Ananasi), a look at the Medieval Garou (and probably Fera) in the Islamic world (including maybe the long lost Caspian Khan and Muslim Stargazers), more on the Medieval Triat and Umbra, a few Warm and maybe even Weaver cults, period Fomori and other possessed breeds, some more details about the period Warders, new Gifts, Rites, Totems, and the like, and perhaps some brief discussion of using Vineland as a setting for Fenrir/Wendigo interactions.

    Dark Castles, a collection of premade keeps and fortresses scattered across Europe to serve as possible domains, caerns, chantries, etc., or as plot hooks, adventure seeds, and the like. Sort of like the old Book of Caerns, Book of Chantries, Haunts, and Freeholds & Hidden Glens were for the modern game lines.

    Venice by Night and Paris by Night, just because I always thought they'd be cool settings for the line.

    Houses of Stone: Great Zimbabwe, about the Southeast African region, stone cities and culture in the 13th century. Probably mostly focused on Werewolf with the Fera (Bastet, Mokole, Nagah, Ajaba, and others) and on Mage with at least two or three new Fellowships. Probably also some stuff on the Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom legacies, African Fey and their Courts, the Dark Kingdom of Ivory in the period, and maybe even a southern African counterpart to the Inquisitors. (I would have called it South of the Sun, but Ars Magica already used that for their rather trippy book about SubSaharan Africa as medieval Europeans pictured it being.)

    Added: Here be Monsters, a sourcebook about mythical and legendary beasts in the corners of the medieval world and using them in ways that fit the themes and cosmologies of the various lines (straight up monsters for Vampire and Inquisitor; great beasts, possessed, and spirits for Werewolf; bygones and umbrood for Mage; player characters for Fae). A nice assortment of dragons and wyrms, goblins and giants, holdovers from ancient myth, elementals, alchemical creations, unicorns, Grendel, mechanical beings (yes, this was a real thing in period fiction), and so on. Include some new Fomori breeds (some of which might still be around) and examples ofFae character builds.
    Last edited by No One of Consequence; 06-20-2019, 08:52 AM.


    What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
    Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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    • #3
      Also, I've long wanted a book about the age of Charlemagne, the start of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Carolingian Renaissance, in the same way that Wolves of the Sea talked about the Viking period. From a Vampire standpoint, this would be a big period for both the Ventrue and Toreador, and possibly also the Brujah and Phaedymite Ravnos. Werewolf would be somewhat unchanged, I think, but you could get an interesting look at the Warders of the period, as well as the Silver Fangs' House Winter Snow (this perhaps being the time when they cement their role as the dominant House in Europe now that House Conquering Claw is all but gone). I'm not really sure how Fae and Inquisitor would work here, but there's probably a lot of fun (if anachronistic) stuff to play with in The Matter of France and various epic poetry and folklore.
      The biggest benefactor of this setting would be Mage, as its a period when the Order of Hermes is only a few decades old and very much in Spring, while the Valdaermen and Old Faith are in their Summer periods (zenith for the Norsemen, late Summer maybe for the OF), and the Messianic Voices are also perhaps at the start of their Summer period. So there is a lot to play around with in terms of group dynamics, and even more so if you go with a Wolves of the Sea crossover.

      Maybe also in this vein, similar books about the Byzantines in the period of Justinian, Theodora, and Belisarius, and about post-Roman Britain and various forms Arthur and Camelot could take in the World of Darkness (maybe one for each game line; gritty historical for Vampire and Werewolf, mythic fantasy for Mage and Fae, and heroic monster hunters for Inquisitor). And maybe also one about Baghdad and the Abbasid Caliphate during the reign of Harun al-Rashid. The Khazar Khanate and Ghana Empire.

      Added: Incidentally, anyone wondering about India during the Dark Ages period (early 13th century), the two biggest kingdoms are the Seuna dynasty in Yadava (central and west India) and the Kakatiya (to their east and south) under Ganapathi Deva. This isn't counting the Mamluk dynasty's newly established Delhi Sultanate in the north.

      China is split between the southern Song and northern Jin kingdoms, with independent Korea/Goryeo and a Japan that hasn't yet conquered Hokkaido (IIRC). There's also a sizable Khmer Empire in Southeast Asia.
      Last edited by No One of Consequence; 06-23-2019, 06:48 PM.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

      Comment


      • #4
        -Italia by Night: a book that was in the making when Requiem was announced and everything else was discontinued.

        -France by Night: detailing the courts of love and their feuds is as medieval as you can get.

        -City books: Rome (important for Vampires, Mages and the best DA splat... Inquisitors, possibly relevant for Werewolves too, since Romolus and Remus were said to have been raised by a shw-wolf), London (Mithras' court, 'nuff said), Paris and Magdenburg at the very least, possibly Venice as well since it was one of the most important european cities of the period.

        -DA mage spellbook with LOTS of routes for each fellowship.

        -The Brujah chronicles: another series of books that was promised.

        -More stuff for DA:Inquisitor, including new/alternative powers,

        -DA: Demon...

        -DA: Wraith

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Haquim View Post
          -France by Night: detailing the courts of love and their feuds is as medieval as you can get.
          I have long felt that Paris should've been the original VDA signature city.

          My ideal list of setting books for the period (from a Vampire perspective) would have been:

          Paris by Night
          The Ashen Kingdoms (a broad overview of the entire region)
          Constantinople by Night
          Dark Albion (England, maybe Wales)
          Empire of Blood (Kingdom of Germany)
          Under the Black Cross (Iberia, mainly the reconquesta kingdoms)
          The Midnight Crescent
          Blood & Silk
          Beyond the Forest (Romania)
          Venice by Night
          Jerusalem (the kingdom, not just the city) by Night


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

            I have long felt that Paris should've been the original VDA signature city.

            My ideal list of setting books for the period (from a Vampire perspective) would have been:

            Paris by Night
            The Ashen Kingdoms (a broad overview of the entire region)
            Constantinople by Night
            Dark Albion (England, maybe Wales)
            Empire of Blood (Kingdom of Germany)
            Under the Black Cross (Iberia, mainly the reconquesta kingdoms)
            The Midnight Crescent
            Blood & Silk
            Beyond the Forest (Romania)
            Venice by Night
            Jerusalem (the kingdom, not just the city) by Night
            When you say the Midnight Crescent, would that be the Middle East?


            Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by marin View Post

              When you say the Midnight Crescent, would that be the Middle East?
              Yes. Basically that being the equivalent to Veil of Night, with possibly books Damascus by Night and something about Alexandria and Egypt (and maybe a large part of the Nile as a gateway into Africa) as future expansions.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                Yes. Basically that being the equivalent to Veil of Night, with possibly books Damascus by Night and something about Alexandria and Egypt (and maybe a large part of the Nile as a gateway into Africa) as future expansions.
                I would love it if that product would also sneak in a gateway to explaining the Mummies of the Dark Ages. Horus for the win!


                It is a time for great deeds!

                Comment


                • #9
                  If the game line had just stayed VtDA, I would have tried to pitch a book (Hunters in Darkness or something) as a period equivalent to Hunters Hunted. Something that talked about mortal vampire hunters, including pre-Inquisition/Society of Leopold faith based hunters, lone hunters, natural philosophers, maybe the Knights Templar, the medieval detective fiction genre, and other things like that. And, yes, a chapter about what mummies were doing in the era.


                  What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                  Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                    The Ashen Lady, a sourcebook about women and their place in the various areas of Medieval European society (which is a lot more diverse and interesting than pop culture history would have you believe), stuff to think about and consider when making/playing women characters, why a lot of the "rules" of gender roles and expectations tend to go out the window when talking about Kindred (and Garou, Mages, etc.), some special attention to groups like the Lamia and Black Furies, possibly introduce the Sisters of Hippolyta as a fellowship.

                    Dark Ages: Werewolf Companion, with all the stuff we'd normally expect from such a thing. The Medieval European Fera (primarily focused on the Corax, Ratkin, the Cealican in all their wonderful feycat glory, and Ananasi), a look at the Medieval Garou (and probably Fera) in the Islamic world (including maybe the long lost Caspian Khan and Muslim Stargazers), more on the Medieval Triat and Umbra, a few Warm and maybe even Weaver cults, period Fomori and other possessed breeds, some more details about the period Warders, new Gifts, Rites, Totems, and the like, and perhaps some brief discussion of using Vineland as a setting for Fenrir/Wendigo interactions.

                    Dark Castles, a collection of premade keeps and fortresses scattered across Europe to serve as possible domains, caerns, chantries, etc., or as plot hooks, adventure seeds, and the like. Sort of like the old Book of Caerns, Book of Chantries, Haunts, and Freeholds & Hidden Glens were for the modern game lines.

                    Venice by Night and Paris by Night, just because I always thought they'd be cool settings for the line.

                    Houses of Stone: Great Zimbabwe, about the Southeast African region, stone cities and culture in the 13th century. Probably mostly focused on Werewolf with the Fera (Bastet, Mokole, Nagah, Ajaba, and others) and on Mage with at least two or three new Fellowships. Probably also some stuff on the Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom legacies, African Fey and their Courts, the Dark Kingdom of Ivory in the period, and maybe even a southern African counterpart to the Inquisitors. (I would have called it South of the Sun, but Ars Magica already used that for their rather trippy book about SubSaharan Africa as medieval Europeans pictured it being.)

                    Added: Here be Monsters, a sourcebook about mythical and legendary beasts in the corners of the medieval world and using them in ways that fit the themes and cosmologies of the various lines (straight up monsters for Vampire and Inquisitor; great beasts, possessed, and spirits for Werewolf; bygones and umbrood for Mage; player characters for Fae). A nice assortment of dragons and wyrms, goblins and giants, holdovers from ancient myth, elementals, alchemical creations, unicorns, Grendel, mechanical beings (yes, this was a real thing in period fiction), and so on. Include some new Fomori breeds (some of which might still be around) and examples ofFae character builds.

                    All of this. 100%

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Points all the people posting awesome books towards the Storytellers Vault so I can buy them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jacob Klunder did do a book, Dark Myth & Legend, which has medieval monsters.


                        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                          So one big thing I remember people wanting across the decades was a Wraith the Dark Ages Book, it would be hella interesting to see the perspective of the ghosts of the age.
                          I also want to see this - anything before the Second Great Maelstrom would be interesting.

                          Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                          Also, I've long wanted a book about the age of Charlemagne, the start of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Carolingian Renaissance, in the same way that Wolves of the Sea talked about the Viking period.
                          I was think of something similar recently.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I mentioned Zimbabwe and Southern Africa during the Dark Ages period (@1175 - @1250 AD, say) as a potential setting that would focus primarily on the Fera and Mages, but if one were to expand that sort of thing into a series of regional books, there are a couple of other places that would make for fairly interesting settings for the various lines.

                            One that I find rather fascinating is the Mississippian culture of the midwestern and southeastern United States. This was a culture of urban centers based around large ceremonial earthen pyramids/mounds with networks of surrounding satellite villages tied together by trade routes and a common - or at least fairly closely related - religion. Two of the biggest of these centers were Cahokia (directly across the Mississippi River from modern St. Louis in Illinois), and Moundville (near Tuscaloosa, Alabama). Their religion is currently referred to as the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex, but for a number of years was referred to by the rather lurid name of "Southern Death Cult", because of some archaeological evidence of possible human sacrifice. Some of their artwork has similarities to Aztec and other Mexican cultures, which raises some interesting questions, some of which could potentially have weird answers. Their trade networks covered most of the eastern United States, possibly reaching the Rocky Mountains. It's possible this may have meant contact with the Ancestral Pueblo culture in the Four Corners region, and other groups in the North East and elsewhere.
                            This would, obviously, be a perfect setting for Werewolf, with the Three Brothers (Uktena, Croatan, and Wendigo), as well as the Native Fera (the Pumonica and Qualmi, Corax, Gurahl, etc.). Mage would also work well here, although I'm not sure exactly how the Fellowships would play out. And there's the Nunnehi for DA: Fae adaption.

                            West Africa would also be an interesting setting. At this time, the once dominant Ghana Empire is fading out and the Mali Empire is getting started. There's also the neighboring Mossi Kingdom, and a number of important city states like Takrur, Nri, Bono, and others. Again, this is probably best for Werewolf, Mage and Fae, but has possible Vampire and Wraith angles as well.

                            Southeast Asia has the Khmer/Angkor Empire, a Hindu-Buddhist kingdom. Its capital, Angkor, was one of the largest cities in the world during this period. It's the sort of place that would make an interesting Kindred of the East/Blood & Silk, Beast Courts, or Mage setting that's not the typical Chinese or Japanese fare.

                            That's just three of them. India, Central America, East Asia, Central Asia, and elsewhere all have a number of possibilities.


                            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              IMHO: In order to be a Dark Ages book, it needs to be set in or around Medieval Europe — somewhere that protagonists from the existing Dark Ages gamelines stand a reasonable chance of interacting with. So the Middle East is a possibility, as are northern Africa, the Baltics, Russia, and the Vikings. But middle or southern Africa is out of bounds, as are the Far East, the Americas, Australia, the Pacific, etc.

                              Which is not to say that such books wouldn't be cool; only that they wouldn't be Dark Ages.
                              Last edited by Dataweaver; 07-05-2019, 01:12 PM.


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