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Any game lines or sub-game lines that support characters like Dorian Gray?

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  • Any game lines or sub-game lines that support characters like Dorian Gray?

    In the main games it looks like Mage may have to be the closest, but I know there are a few sub lines (Gypsy, Mafia, etc) that I may not be aware of that could support a character like Dorian Gray.

  • #2
    Dorian Grey is.. "just" an infernal investment.

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    • #3
      Dorian Grey is easiest to do with Mages rather comprehensive Merits/Flaws system. Immunity (if playing revised) or ”Immortality” (M20) for 7 points with your special doom being the destruction of your Phylactery (7 point flaw in both editions).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lian View Post
        Dorian Grey is.. "just" an infernal investment.
        Yes. IIRC, he pretty much straight up wishes to himself to sell his soul to remain young and pretty forever, and the universe apparently takes him up on the offer.

        I kind of lament that there was never a World of Darkness: Cursed Objects or something of that nature, looking at assorted relics and knick knacks that don't exactly fit as Fetishes, Talismans and so forth.

        Incidentally, Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray remains one of my favorite Vampire influences, as its themes of moral decay and narcissism combined with "eternal" youth fit the game very well IMO. (And you could easily read it as a recounting of a, say, Toreador, Ravnos or Setite embrace that's been scrubbed of anything that might breach the Masquerade.)


        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lian View Post
          Dorian Grey is.. "just" an infernal investment.
          An infernal investment?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Possessed View Post
            Dorian Grey is easiest to do with Mages rather comprehensive Merits/Flaws system. Immunity (if playing revised) or ”Immortality” (M20) for 7 points with your special doom being the destruction of your Phylactery (7 point flaw in both editions).
            Ok, I will look into this later tonight.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by vonkarolinas View Post

              An infernal investment?


              He's a person who made a deal with a demon for immortality. I think Path of Screams probably has the best covering of it but that's really all he is..

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              • #8
                Thank you, Lian and Possessed, for the help. Looks like aspects of Book of Secrets using Immortality and Phylactery were done with just this type of character in mind. It looks like that is what I will be using.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post



                  He's a person who made a deal with a demon for immortality. I think Path of Screams probably has the best covering of it but that's really all he is..
                  That and Devil's Due, Book of Madness, and the various Vampire books that talk about it. (I can't remember what Demon had about the subject.) I'm honestly a little surprised there was never a WoD: Infernalism book back then.


                  What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                  Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                    That and Devil's Due, Book of Madness, and the various Vampire books that talk about it. (I can't remember what Demon had about the subject.) I'm honestly a little surprised there was never a WoD: Infernalism book back then.

                    I THINK path of screams was closest to it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                      I kind of lament that there was never a World of Darkness: Cursed Objects or something of that nature, looking at assorted relics and knick knacks that don't exactly fit as Fetishes, Talismans and so forth.
                      You could always put together a Storyteller's Vault supplement for this--it's definitely the sort of thing I'd pick up.

                      That said, I can't help but think of the episode of Rick and Morty where Summer goes to work for the Devil selling cursed objects, and Rick opens a store across the street de-cursing it all with science. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, that's basically just a Mage game right there--competing paradigms duking it out!

                      Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                      That and Devil's Due, Book of Madness, and the various Vampire books that talk about it. (I can't remember what Demon had about the subject.) I'm honestly a little surprised there was never a WoD: Infernalism book back then.
                      Midnight Circus also had a version of the sort of "press your luck" system that you see in Book of Madness (whereby the player is goaded into gambling with their soul in exchange for power, theoretically never knowing exactly how far they can take it before they lose huge). I think in Midnight Circus they called them "barbs", and if you took X number of barbs (in exchange for powerz/investments/whatever), it solidified into a... something else, and at some point you were just bound to the Circus, as if blood bound almost.


                      Sig

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lian View Post


                        I THINK path of screams was closest to it.
                        It and Devil's Due probably come closest, yes The only down side is that both are period supplements, and I think what Infernalism is in the Medieval or Renaissance periods - or in the Victorian or even Great War eras - is different than what they'd be in the modern day (either back 20 years ago or today). There's all sorts of things like the Regency period Hellfire Club, Victorian occult societies, the public image of Satanism that influenced a lot of 60s, 70s and 80s fiction (everything from Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist to Friday the 13th The Series and Trick or Treat), stuff from Japanese anime and other Asian media, and other modern takes, that aren't part of those, and I think have a lot of material that can be mined to good effect for almost all of the modern games, including the subgames like The Inquisition, Project: Twilight, Sorcerer, and so on. (Honestly, if I was asked to develop a revised Project: Twilight, at least a sizable section would talk about their investigations of various "Satanic" cults, which would include not only real Infernalists, but what are actually blood cults, Kinfolk societies, sorcerous groups, changelings and other things.)
                        That doesn't even get into the idea of modern Luciferian Satanism as a perfectly viable paradigm for certain types of Ecstatics, Hollowers and others, as well as Setites and other vampires.


                        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                          You could always put together a Storyteller's Vault supplement for this--it's definitely the sort of thing I'd pick up.
                          That would probably be #15 on the list of STV stuff I'd consider doing if I had the time and energy. (Don't ever get old, kids; It's very unfun.)

                          Midnight Circus also had a version of the sort of "press your luck" system that you see in Book of Madness (whereby the player is goaded into gambling with their soul in exchange for power, theoretically never knowing exactly how far they can take it before they lose huge). I think in Midnight Circus they called them "barbs", and if you took X number of barbs (in exchange for powerz/investments/whatever), it solidified into a... something else, and at some point you were just bound to the Circus, as if blood bound almost.
                          IIRC, the system in Book of Madness Revised is largely based on stuff from KotE's 1000 Hells book. It's been so long since I've looked at any KotE material that I can't really recall.


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                            That and Devil's Due, Book of Madness, and the various Vampire books that talk about it. (I can't remember what Demon had about the subject.) I'm honestly a little surprised there was never a WoD: Infernalism book back then.
                            Could they though? If you look at all the various books, infernalism is kind of..... broken.

                            Every book on infernalism has its own way of doing demonic deals in order to remain consistent with the game lines they're meant for, most of them provide some way to boost dice-pools Permanently without xp, and some will even allow you to buy powers from other gamelines using their own flavor of "evil" points rather than xp. This is all exacerbated by the fact that many of them don't have a hard "cap" on how many "evil" points you can have.

                            Path of screams and book of madness base their systems on favor you do for the demon, 1000 hells have a limited pool of point that can be bypasses by doing favors for the demon, Devil's due has a faith + corruption cap that can be bypassed by anyone who can use vampire disciplines(the book outright states you can get 10 of their flavor of "evil" point as a daimonion 6 power, forgeting that A. discipline dots cost 4 points, B. according to the vampire core books[revised, 20th, dark ages and dark ages 20th] you can buy the 6+ dot of a discipline multiple times, and C. demonic deals are stated in book to ignore generation constraints) and possessed characters can buy unique powers(I.E. can still buy gifts normally) with flaws up to what they can handle(and that's only required if the DM decides not to allow buying autonomy with xp).

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