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Demon the Fallen Abyss and the Labyrinth

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  • Demon the Fallen Abyss and the Labyrinth

    Is the Abyss that the fallen are trapped within located within the Tempest/Sea of Shadows just above the Labyrinth, or is it within the labyrinth near the well of the void?

    Also any theories on who the Angel of Pain is, who was once an angel of mercy, and was one of the three cast into the Abyss that weren't part of the rebellion? I had thought it to be Gabriel, but one of the fallen mentions if Gabriel was in the Abyss it was unlikely and said "No one knew if the Archangel of Mercy and Revelation had been punished for his disobedience or if he fell during the night. One thing is for
    certain, his name was never echoed in the Abyss, so if Gabriel was punished by the Almighty, he was sentenced to a hell all his own."

    Also, why did Anubis want the underworld city of Enoch and the Tal'mahe'Ra destroyed? Do you think he was actually trying to have the Aralu destroyed?

    Lastly, can Kuei-jin be regular people that crawled their way out of Yomi, or are they all reincarnated souls of the cursed Wan Xian?
    Last edited by Archasimos; 12-07-2019, 08:35 PM.


    I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

  • #2
    I actually felt that the Abyss was underneath the Labyrinth, and it was partially cracked when Xerxes' bomb went off. It makes some sort of logical sense that the Abyss would be at the absolute bottom of Creation. It kind of parallels having the Well of Souls (and possibly Heaven) at the highest point of the High Umbra/Epiphanies. Haven't read enough Demon to answer the angel question. One theory has Anubis as Abel, suggesting that Caine's possible resting place was a reason. Finally, Kuei-jin are regular people who found themselves cast into Yomi upon death and found a way out. Whether or not they had any direct connection to the original Wan Xain is unknown, although I think there are currently more Kuei-jin than there were Wan Xian, meaning not all of them could be reincarnated.


    THWarted

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    • #3
      According to the White Wolf Wiki site at Fandom (on the page on "Haven," which does not cite sources, so I don't know which actual book this is from), the Labyrinth was built by the Halaku during the war, as an extra measure of protection against a possible invasion of the Underworld by the Angelic Host.

      The Labyrinth, then, predates the Abyss where the Fallen were sent by quite a bit of time. I agree with the post above that the Abyss is separate from and beneath the Labyrinth, making the Abyss and the Lasombra magic that draws upon it uniquely terrible.

      Because the Demon: the Fallen line of books had as short a run as it had, a lot of mysteries were left in place without another author coming along to fill in the blanks with an official answer. The fate of Gabriel is likely one of these, where you're free to make up whatever answer suits you. The motives of Anubis, from the end of the Wraith product line, is another.

      Anubis could be an undercover agent of the Angelic Host, finally destroying Haven and cracking the Abyss open to set mortal souls and the Fallen free in an act of divine mercy. Anubis could be Gabriel, if that ties it all up in a neat bow for your story purposes.
      Last edited by Reasor; 12-08-2019, 02:04 AM.

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      • #4
        Apparently the devs intended Anubis to be Abel, even though they never actually included it in the books. Anubis is also the first man to have ever tasted death, so this fits. With that in mind, if the Aralu are actually cainites, Anubis as Abel could have a big hate for them, not to mention the Tal'mahe'Ra.


        I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Reasor View Post
          According to the White Wolf Wiki site at Fandom (on the page on "Haven," which does not cite sources, so I don't know which actual book this is from), the Labyrinth was built by the Halaku during the war, as an extra measure of protection against a possible invasion of the Underworld by the Angelic Host.
          It's from Houses of the Fallen, in the Halaku chapter.


          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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          • #6
            Anubis turning out to be Abel is a little too on-the-nose to me, when Egyptian mythology already has a famous fratricide in Set's murder of Osiris. Different strokes for different folks, though. It takes all kinds.

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            • #7
              That’s probably why they left it to simply being the first man to have tasted death.


              I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

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              • #8
                I don't see why Anubis needs to "really" be something other than the Egyptian death god.

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                • #9
                  Besides, this ultimately wasn't canon because Abel exists inside a memory tower belonging to Grandmother. Also, I think the old Wraith FAQ specifically shot this idea down. It's just a rumour that's persisted.

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                  • #10
                    Oh, I’m totally cool with Anubis being whatever anyone needs him to be for their chronicle. I myself use the canon as a framework to build upon, and make changes to it as needed for any game I’m running. I was more looking for possible reasons why he may have wanted Enoch and the Tal’mahe’Ra eliminated.


                    I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

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                    • #11
                      Per the available books on the Tal'mahe'ra, the city's location made it a strategic target for centuries. Wraiths took the city over after the Third Great Maelstrom in the 17th century, only for the vampires to take it back by force in the 18th. This may to may not have something to do with the Inhauten's stated belief, which he transmitted to the sect's first members, that whoever holds the city will be able to influence the end of the world.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                        Per the available books on the Tal'mahe'ra, the city's location made it a strategic target for centuries. Wraiths took the city over after the Third Great Maelstrom in the 17th century, only for the vampires to take it back by force in the 18th. This may to may not have something to do with the Inhauten's stated belief, which he transmitted to the sect's first members, that whoever holds the city will be able to influence the end of the world.
                        I missed that part, which is an interesting and useful bit of information. Thanks!


                        I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Archasimos View Post
                          Lastly, can Kuei-jin be regular people that crawled their way out of Yomi, or are they all reincarnated souls of the cursed Wan Xian?
                          I also have this question, what’s the connection between souls of Wan Xian and Wan Gui? In my opinion the Kuei Jin should be much more humorous than original Wan Xian... their born-childer Dhamypr too, who may be much more than murdered Jin Hai...

                          Or maybe every Gui just has a spark soul of the Wan Xian?...
                          Last edited by Rock113; 12-11-2019, 05:01 AM.

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                          • #14
                            The Abyss is right above Oblivion but below the Labyrinth, Greg Stolze says Oblivion was placed by God as a mercy option to Demons in the Abyss.

                            One of the writers originally planned to reveal Anubis as the Ghost of Abel in the Gehenna book, but regardless he has a number of reasons to want to bomb a Vampire City with a priesthood of Liches, but yes the Aaralu may be an even more insidious enemy, but they Escaped. They may also be Angels, or 2nd Gen or Caine.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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