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Aggravated damage in HtR?

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  • Aggravated damage in HtR?

    Hello everyone,

    So the original HtR lacks agg damage system because of their mortal origin (Agg is also “lethal” to ordinary folks), but IIRC some sources imply imbueds can deal agg wounds indeed*. So what’s your opinion about this? Do you have ever tried translating it to HtR? Please give me your ideas!

    *Sources I can recall:
    1. Events in Enemybook the Spellbound imply they can do agg wounds.
    2. Hunter in Werewolf cores can make their weapons agg (Cleave?).
    3. That guy, Bobby Pride, in New York by Night can also make weapons agg by spending 1 WP.
    4. Toreador Revised mentions that an imbued killed an 8th gens Toreador with a single blow (!).
    5. Crusader17, Wendell Delburton, permanently injured Lucifer with his 5th level edge in ToJ.

  • #2
    In a pure HtR game, Agg is also unnecessary because the HtR monster creation rules are written with the idea that you don't need Agg to keep monsters down.

    The Hunter Storytellers Handbook has a FAQ that directly addresses this on page 21, and the advice remains solid if you're going to use Hunters in a mixed game (even if just having vampires use the VtM rules instead of the HtR vampire rules).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      The Hunter Storytellers Handbook has a FAQ that directly addresses this on page 21,
      Oh I know this reference, my mortal origin reason at the beginning also comes from this, but I forget to quote this book, my fault.

      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      and the advice remains solid if you're going to use Hunters in a mixed game (even if just having vampires use the VtM rules instead of the HtR vampire rules) .
      But as I say even in VtM they may do agg damage

      I don’t know can you use “unsoakable” lethal with agg? I don’t know the difference...

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      • #4
        The primary difference is how quickly things can heal. A full VtM vampire can spend vitae to heal lethal on a 1 to 1 basis reflexively (at the limits of how much blood they can spend a turn, and how much blood they can hold). They heal 1 Aggravated damage per 5 blood points, and it takes a full day instead of being able to do this once a turn. Though it's worth noting that if a full VtM vampire takes enough damage in one hit, even if they can heal the damage, they're still rendered unconscious in Torpor until that wears off, and they can be easily (well, by people that know how) permanently destroyed in that state.

        In general, this plays out the same (if different specifics) for the supernaturals of the WoD. Taking lots of lethal damage is bad, because they can still be killed or incapacitated beyond the ability to bounce back in a single scene by it. Taking lots of Agg is worse because it tends to kill you outright without the chance of coming back (however slim). If the amount of damage is smaller, lethal can fail to be enough to deal with a supernatural as most has combat applicable healing of lethal damage, while few have combat applicable healing of Agg damage (and those that do usually have to rely on teamwork for it).

        So if you allow Hunters to deal Agg in whatever method, the big impact is really smaller hits than big ones, since it means they can kill monsters more reliably by fighting conservatively and wearing them down (and not needing certain Edges to do things like shut off their access to points to spend to heal themselves). Upgrading a power that deals 10 unsoakable levels of lethal damage, to 10 unsoakable levels of agg damage is worse for monsters, but practically not by a lot because they still only have 7 HL and being full up on lethal is bad news.

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        • #5
          I’m running a Hunter chronicle right now, and I treat edges like Cleave like they do aggravated damage. I also use the cinematic rules at let hunters soak lethal at dif 8. The main antagonist is a kuei-jin, and there also are mages as antagonists, so I find it allows the cell to go up against some more high powered things that are still very risky to engage with

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Trategos_Sol View Post
            I’m running a Hunter chronicle right now, and I treat edges like Cleave like they do aggravated damage.
            Hey guy, have you ever tested an extremist having lv.5 edge? How powerful beings can they take down at best? Although there is a book about them but they’re nearly unplayable in most hunter games. I suspect damages lv.5 edges can deal are all permanent... Crusader17, well

            EDIT: Use agg damage rule
            Last edited by Rock113; 02-02-2020, 08:28 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
              Hey guy, have you ever tested an extremist having lv.5 edge? How powerful beings can they take down at best? Although there is a book about them but they’re nearly unplayable in most hunter games. I suspect damages lv.5 edges can deal are all permanent... Crusader17, well

              EDIT: Use agg damage rule

              I have never used level 5 edges in a game; I suppose I'd cross that bridge if/when it comes

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              • #8
                It's worth noting that 'Imbued in other Revised game systems' was a bit odd. For example in Werewolf they were depicted as having flaming weapons that could do aggravated damage plus one die. But in Mage Revised they just charged their weapons with mystical energy (two extra die of damage - their cleave analogue but no 'using up' the weapon). Demon the Fallen had a more detailed writeup (because DtF and HtR seem like they'd make a better system paired together..) but cleave inflicted aggravated damage with no damage bonus. Mummy had the imbued imitating powers from Hekau (only more subtle, including attribute boosts) but nothing more detailed. They showed up in Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom as well (powers simulated with disciplines such as Auspex, Fortitude, Valeran, Dominate, Presenc.. and thaumaturgy.) One could assume that in those systems aggravated damage existed.

                And FWIW Dark Ages Inquisitor (their version of Dark Ages Hunter) had aggravated damage still being a thing.

                When you contrast all that with what the Storyteller Handbook said about how cleave works and how rare 'flaming' weapons were (different than in Werewolf) I think the storyteller handbook answer is pretty much the definitive one. if you want edges to do aggravated damage then do it (I always figured that if you wanted the flaming weapons it would either be a different application of cleave, or some sort of 'blessed/consecreted' weapon akin to what you can do with True Faith, which you can say Imbued powers have some connection to...)

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