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Has there been any talks of a Demon the fallen 20th anniversary book?

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  • Has there been any talks of a Demon the fallen 20th anniversary book?

    Has there been any talks of a Demon the fallen 20th anniversary book?

  • #2
    Every couple of weeks for the last several years, someone asks a variation of this question on the Monday Meeting Notes blog, and our answer has been the same:




    Ian A. A. Watson
    Onyx Path Community Manager
    Trinity Continuum Content Lead

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    • #3
      No, no 20th anni news about Demon, Hunter, Orpheus, Mummy and Kindred of the East, at least up to now

      Although other 20th anni versions have some new materials about them, expecially Vampire

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      • #4
        And from what we've heard elsewhere, we need to keep our expectations low.

        Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
        No, no 20th anni news about Demon, Hunter, Orpheus, Mummy and Kindred of the East, at least up to now
        I mean. We already got the Appendix section in Wr20.

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        • #5
          All these lines are totally less popular (Less books, all of them are just having 10+- ones), Paradox may think it is unnecessary to revise them

          Some may also have political problems (For example KotE is a racism today)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
            Some may also have political problems (For example KotE is a racism today)
            Depending on who you ask, 80% of Werewolf is a giant racism/sexism/orientalism/etc.

            Regardless, your point is well taken.



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            • #7
              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
              Depending on who you ask, 80% of Werewolf is a giant racism/sexism/orientalism/etc.

              Regardless, your point is well taken.
              Well, Werewolf is also one of the more popular WoD gamelines and was kind of a shoe-in for it to get a 5e update.

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              • #8
                [QUOTE=tasti man LH;n1383055]

                Well, Werewolf is also one of the more popular WoD gamelines and was kind of a shoe-in for it to get a 5e update.[/QUOT] Fair point.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                  Well, Werewolf is also one of the more popular WoD gamelines and was kind of a shoe-in for it to get a 5e update.
                  Werewolf is good, a higher fantasy(at least, now*) and combat-heavy game in WoD, playing this likes watching a dnd film

                  *early setting of WtA still has a bit taste of "Darkness", but at least in Revised edition they change it to a more fatansy game

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
                    Depending on who you ask, 80% of Werewolf is a giant racism/sexism/orientalism/etc.

                    Regardless, your point is well taken.

                    By the time of revised it was mostly all cleaned up. I mean one of the errors was the Stargazer book forgetting that the War of Shame wasn't the Garou Nations fault and the Hengeyokai are the ones who took out the Asian Gurahl.

                    And that World of Rage 20 book was bit hmmm when they described situations like the Garou who went to the Ahadi and everyone listened to the garou but they all died because he didn't know what he was talking about. It was clearly symbolic of being white and going to a different side of the planet and thinking they know everything which leads to accidents. The problem is it didn't really make sense that the Ahadi listened to some rando. it also came off as a bit of a white savior complex.

                    But Revised and a lot of W20 are pretty solid. When things are racist and sexist it is usually to make a point, like Evan Heals the past trying to heal the wounds of his tribe so they can move forward and join the other tribes, or the struggles of the Black Furies emancipating women around the world, that Glass Walker in Rage Across Egypt who suffered female Circumcision still is stamped in my mind to this day.

                    And how many Garou tribes are prejudice against Metis for the Sins of their parents. The problems they introduce are intentional and they are their to discuss and make use of.


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #11
                      One of the main (non legal) hurdles with Demon20 and Hunter20 is that both games were built around the idea that said type was a totally recent occurrence. If you set them 20 years after that, the sociopolitical set up is going to be radically different in a number of areas.
                      If asked to pitch such a thing, I'd be tempted to have "20 years after" be the first major stretch goal of the KS.


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                        One of the main (non legal) hurdles with Demon20 and Hunter20 is that both games were built around the idea that said type was a totally recent occurrence. If you set them 20 years after that, the sociopolitical set up is going to be radically different in a number of areas.
                        If asked to pitch such a thing, I'd be tempted to have "20 years after" be the first major stretch goal of the KS.
                        I personally want it to keep that it was a millennial event and give us an update on things. I mean I can just used revised if I want the old game. Give us a Messengers Crossover product for Demon and Hunter.


                        It is a time for great deeds!

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                        • #13
                          One issue that I can see would be that D:tF was so clearly introduced for the purpose of ushering in the end of the Classic World of Darkness. They were releasing a minimum of one book a month throughout 2003, and often more than that, in order to have it all out in time to shut the world down at the start of 2004. The metaplot is one of rapid fire escalation, with the long lost Lucifer reappearing in a tie-in novel almost immediately and the first and only city book dealing with the consequences of that.

                          This is only my headcanon, but I like to think that the Fallen's inability to find any sign of God or the Host of Heaven after their escape from the Abyss lines up nicely with the Kuei Jin prophecy of the Emperor of Heaven abandoning his throne at the dawn of the Sixth Age.

                          I don't see the Fallen having a role this early in 5th Edition, because I don't believe the persons who have the final say have a vision for how history marches on after things get that interesting. Gehenna either petered out several years ago or is being fought entirely by NPC's, and anyways it's cyclical and took place in a distant corner of the globe where the world doesn't have to notice it. This is by design. Someone wanted Vampire go back to its roots and just be about Camarilla intrigues in salons and Anarchs scrounging for their night's blood fix in this edition. W5's Werewolf Apocalypse will be just as trivial, so that Werewolf can go back to being whatever its first edition was supposed to be.
                          Last edited by Reasor; 04-24-2020, 04:20 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                            I don't see the Fallen having a role this early in 5th Edition, because I don't believe the persons who have the final say have a vision for how history marches on after things get that interesting. Gehenna either petered out several years ago or is being fought entirely by NPC's, and anyways it's cyclical and took place in a distant corner of the globe where the world doesn't have to notice it. This is by design. Someone wanted Vampire go back to its roots and just be about Camarilla intrigues in salons and Anarchs scrounging for their night's blood fix in this edition. W5's Werewolf Apocalypse will be just as trivial, so that Werewolf can go back to being whatever its first edition was supposed to be.
                            Afaik, Werewolf was fairly light on the 'signs of the impending End Times' side of the metaplot (maybe because there's a case it didn't need to create fictional signs when you could just take a look at the state of the environment), having the Red Star (still present in V5) and the Perfect Metis. So there's not much it needs to step back from.


                            Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                            • #15
                              I'm a big fan of demon myself (favorite TTRPG I've never played) so much so a while back before V5 was released but after White Wolf changed their website to the 'One World of Darkness" or whatever I sent them an email expressing my love for Demon and asking if they planned to make a new edition, I got a reply saying they planned to make new edition of all World of Darkness game lines. Now, with the way V5 took off I'm not going to hold my breath but be it D5 (or I guess D2, right?) or an onyx path released D20 I would love to see an updated version. Maybe I'll send them another email, if I get any info from them I'll be sure to post it somewhere here.

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