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Has there been any talks of a Demon the fallen 20th anniversary book?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    One of the main (non legal) hurdles with Demon20 and Hunter20 is that both games were built around the idea that said type was a totally recent occurrence. If you set them 20 years after that, the sociopolitical set up is going to be radically different in a number of areas.
    If asked to pitch such a thing, I'd be tempted to have "20 years after" be the first major stretch goal of the KS.
    I think this would be suuuuper interesting. Unlike vampires, mages, and werewolves, who have had what amount to societies for multiple millenia, Demon society and culture as it were, was just emerging. V5's radical changes to setting aside, vampire culture has basically held to a sort of norm for multiple centuries since the convention of thorns (when the high/low clan distinction gave way to more overtly sectarian division), and for centuries or millennia before that, the division was the line between high and low clans. Werewolves have basically had the same socio-political structure for centuries or millennia with some deviation here and there, but nothing drastic. Mages change probably more than anyone else, but they're also the splat that disentangles political affiliation from some intrinsic supernatural element of one's nature (i.e., vampires are embraced into a clan and cannot, barring extraordinary or bizarre situations, change clans; and Garou are born into a tribe, and changing tribes is momentous and rare ordeal.... but mages just form clubs of voluntary association).

    In any case, I think it goes without saying that a hidden supernatural sub-culture in its nascent stage, when the potential population of "members" is potentially doubling or tripling every few years (assuming a steady rate of escapees from Hell, the new arrivals would comprise a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall number of demons as time went on--assuming the demons aren't dying at the same rate new ones are escaping), would be very different from that same sub-culture 10 and 15 and 20 years down the line, respectively. I dare say that it's a game RIPE for a 20th anniversary, and later 5th edition, because basically any and all changes to that society are perfectly plausible and believable by dint of how new demons were to the planet, and how much room their society still had to grow before it would eventually find some kind of resilient status quo.


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    • #17
      Addressing the issue of updating Demon to a setting that works outside the end-times scenario of the original game, I think Changeling 20 had a really good new development in the emergence of the Thallain, the fomorian dark fae who awaken more as a consequence of Dark Glamour effusions in response to events like war and other tragedies that lead to despair and fear. A similar principle could justify localized breaches of the Abyss where more Fallen are able to come back to Creation and find suitable hosts - exactly those more affected by such issues.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by valismedsen View Post
        Addressing the issue of updating Demon to a setting that works outside the end-times scenario of the original game, I think Changeling 20 had a really good new development in the emergence of the Thallain, the fomorian dark fae who awaken more as a consequence of Dark Glamour effusions in response to events like war and other tragedies that lead to despair and fear. A similar principle could justify localized breaches of the Abyss where more Fallen are able to come back to Creation and find suitable hosts - exactly those more affected by such issues.
        I don't know I really felt it was perfect to have Demons be the result of the Week of Nightmares. I don't want to get rid of the Red Star, and maybe just have it be the cracks were ordained to happen at the turning of the Millenium or 2012.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #19
          If the sixth maelstrom failed to happen in Wraith 5th edition, the cause of the cracks in the Abyss would have to be retconned for DtF's sake anyways.
          Last edited by Reasor; 05-03-2020, 05:37 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Reasor View Post
            If the sixth maelstrom failed to happen in Wraith 5th edition, the cause of the cracks in the Abyss would have to be retconned for DtF's sake anyways.
            I'm pretty sure they would just have it the Maelstrom had a period of intensity like the Avatar Storm but eventually calmed. Though it would be interesting if storms were much more present as it never truly returned to the state of the last millennium.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #21
              I think I've heard of it settling down somewhat over the course of the Orpheus game's brief metaplot as well, but I haven't read those books myself.

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              • #22
                I have no stake in Demon itself, but I feel like the World of Darkness is still in its End Times. So the world didn't end just 5 years after the Week of Nightmares and the Red Star... but compared to 10,000+ years since the Deluge, another 50 years of degeneration, horrible events, and glimmers of hope for survival/saving the world... wouldn't really be that long.

                To me, the real world looks to be in something like the End Times anyway. Our world isn't actually ending as far as I know, but human civilization and the biosphere are heading rapidly towards some drastic catastrophes, such as the current pandemic, with worse to come. If I overlay the spiritual and cosmic layers of the WoD (mostly Werewolf, Mage, and KotE) onto that, and look at the WoD consequences of recent current events, it sure looks like the world (or the Fifth Age) will still end quite soon. Just, maybe not in one singular Maelstrom/Avatar Storm/Dja-Akh explosion.

                That said, the Revised version of the End Times was short-lived. Playing a decades-spanning chronicle with the Avatar Storm, Sixth Great Maelstrom, and now the Malady going on continually may be too bleak for some troupes.


                I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors

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                • #23
                  I would have been delighted with a resolution to 2004's many end-of-the-world scenarios where things go wrong or right in unpredictable ways, due to the fact that so many supernaturals are dealing with it from different angles.

                  Maybe the Risen managed to fortify the Gauntlet to prevent the rise of Apophis. The Garou, the Kuei Jin, and the Fallen certainly notice that they can't reach the Umbra any longer, but their enemies on the other side of the barrier can't cross over either, which tidies up a lot of their problems. The Antedeluvians rise, but they're quickly smacked down by the now undistracted Garou, Kuei Jin, and Fallen. Things turn out more or less okay.

                  Until the world starts getting crowded with the Wraiths of every human soul who can't escape the Skinlands when they die.

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