No announcement yet.

Demon The Fallen: Fallen Mind Immunity question(s)

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Demon The Fallen: Fallen Mind Immunity question(s)

    Hey all,

    Had a recent run in with an ST. The synopsis is as follows;

    Demons are immune to induced fear, mind control, and resistant to illusions by default. The book makes that obvious.

    Lore of the Celestials; which is the lore dedicated to the control, command, and use of other angels and their evocations- it's rank two power ...

    •• send vision In their former role as the Creator’s divine Heralds, the Namaru were often called upon to convey God’s messages across the length and breadth of the cosmos, delivering Heaven’s commands as potent visions that filled a Celestial’s mind with images of majesty and
    wonder. After the Fall, the Devils still made extensive use of this lore, communicating detailed orders to their subordinates in the rebel host or smiting their foes with frightening visions of infernal wrath.

    System: Roll Manipulation + Expression. Devils may use this evocation to send complex instructions to fellow demons at the speed of thought. Unlike an invocation, this vision fills the recipient’s mind like an illusion or a waking dream, playing out whatever scene the sender wishes to convey in the blink of an eye. The amount of information the sender can convey depends on the number of successes generated by your roll. Each success allows the sender to describe one turn’s worth of action. For example, if a Devil wishes to instruct one of her fellow demons to go outside, get in a car and start the engine, the player would need three successes to fully convey her instructions. These instructions can be shared simultaneously to a number of individuals equal to your character’s Faith. These visions can be sent only to recipients within the sender’s line of sight. This power may be used on mortals and demons alike.

    Torment: Monstrous demons use this evocation to shock or frighten their foes in battle. The sender can affect a number of targets equal to her Faith, as long as they are within her line of sight. Each success generated by your roll inflicts a level of bashing damage against the targets as they are struck with terrifying visions of the Devil’s wrath. Unlike normal bashing damage, this mental assault cannot be soaked. If the evocation inflicts more levels of bashing damage than a target’s Wits, the target must make a Willpower roll (difficulty 8) or suffer a temporary derangement.

    ST says that this power, high torment, does not function against other Fallen. I and another player disagreed. Player 2 brought up Lore of Death 3 which also affects demons. ST said that's allowable because the lore ''specifically says it affects demons'', whereas Celestials 2 high torment system does not go out of it's way to blatantly state this..

    This evocation saw frequent use in the War of Wrath, permitting Slayers to fill the minds of their foes with visions of impending death. Even battle-hardened angels found their mettle sorely tested by these bone chilling sights, throwing down their arms and fleeing before the Halaku’s remorseless advance.

    ST used all other lores in the book as an example, and sort-of made a good point; celestials is the only lore in the book that does not blatantly name mortal/demon as potential targets.

    My argument was the fundamental nature of the Lore of Celestials as a whole; each instance of it in the book strictly refers to it as it being the angelic power of dealing with other angels. Lore of Celestials rank 4 also does not specify mortal or demon targets; just targets in general. I think that's the point...

    My ST agreed to side with me only if Onyxpath shared my opinion, as he's taking the book incredibly literal (he also is not comfortable being a Rabisu chad that can get dominated by a Namaru, honestly).


  • #2
    I think you both have literal sources to back you up. That the sources (different chapters in the same text!) conflict with one another is due to negligent work on the editor's part.

    I agree with your argument that establishing authority over other Demons is an essential tool for the Devils in order to perform their core function, which used to be commanding other Angels at the dawn of creation.

    ETA: I did some some searching online for an errata document that might clear this up. I found an errata document reprinted on a couple of forums, and went back to an April 2004 snapshot of the old White Wolf website to make sure that they were reposting something official, but even that document doesn't address the issue that you and your friend are in disagreement about.
    Last edited by Reasor; 05-06-2020, 09:09 PM.