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How to design a power which has 7+ levels?

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  • How to design a power which has 7+ levels?

    So I want to design and rewrite true advanced powers, but...

    Some splats (Kindred, Revised Mage and Wan Gui) do have 7+ powers, while most of them suck

    One of the greatest problems is imbalance: these higher powers are usually less efficient than lower ones

    So how to design such powers? Do you know any good example?

    *Authorities tend to remove advanced powers in latest editions just because of great difficulty on designing, like what I say:
    M20 denies archspheres,
    V5 simply ignores 6+ traits,
    and I do think it’s a good idea

    If I can’t find a great method, I will also throw my thoughts
    Last edited by Rock113; 05-07-2020, 07:29 AM.

  • #2
    If the maximum is 5-7, things will be much easier:
    M20 gives us a good example about 5 levels
    Werewolf is 6 levels, 7 levels is okay, but 10 levels... how to design it? Vampire powers are broken, you can't level a power well if it has too many levels


    • #3
      I want to design the 6+ Godbodies of Wan Gui,

      Blood and Silk has first 5 levels, and I'm interested in them.

      I know Shintais are the corrupted forms of them, but advanced ones in Companion are broken
      Last edited by Rock113; 05-07-2020, 07:39 AM.


      • #4
        Yes this is a pickle. I would be interested in how you develop the Wan Gui disciplines as that is the missing element in transporting them to 20th anniversary settings.

        If you look at the Amenti powers they seem to be a pretty good set of balanced powers even past 6+.

        Another method that would work for some, but probably not disciplines is to have just a single "archpower" like a level 6 capstone. Werewolf does this and their level 6 basically fits in a gap for powers representing what would be level 7-9 of Kindred powers and the Imbued go a step further and their level 5 power works like that. And maybe has one system of Archmages that only have a level 6 archsphere. That idea I've seen fans use to represent say a level 6 Arcanoi for Wraiths that serves to just make the lower level powers more potent. I've thought of using such an approach to give Changelings,Wraiths, and Fallen a capstone option.

        But the Amenti version of Mummy would be a good sample of powers that could inspire a more balanced set of Wan Gui Ancestor level disciplines.

        It is a time for great deeds!


        • #5
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          Yes this is a pickle. I would be interested in how you develop the Wan Gui disciplines as that is the missing element in transporting them to 20th anniversary settings.
          Sorry but what’s the difference between revised and 20th of VtM?

          I will refer to similar powers, for example Godbody of Wood/Flesh Shintai can refer to Life magick/Vicissitude, Godbody of Earth/Jade Shintai can refer to Protean, these similar powers may have much better options

          Some powers can simply be rewritten referring to their traits. For example, I think Godbody of Demon/Demon Shintai 8, Bodhisattva level power, may allow you to have all demonic characteristics at once, when you are into the demon form all characteristics will manifest and you can choose to open or off by will

          For Wan Gui powers are much more expensive, I will consider giving them more than one power of each level, even in the core, making them more diverse


          • #6
            But I hope there is a general rule to write level 10 powers

            M20 is a golden model for 5 levels, it has a very clear and proper level structure. All spheres are just up to 5, and each level has its own strength

            Even when you need 6 or 7 levels it is also just a piece of cake, for example mage can leave one level 6 sphere a to represent Plot Device level, if you want 7 levels then leave level 7 spheres to represent TRUE Plot Device power, which may become plot itself, no more system needed

            But 10 level is problematic, I know the reason why it exists is the traits of VtM. But it’s very bad
            Last edited by Rock113; 05-07-2020, 02:06 PM.


            • #7
              Level tens are NPC territory.

              But 20th and revised are mostly the same but they never got a good core book I revised. At least wraith got the Great War.

              It is a time for great deeds!


              • #8
                Something that I do think that older editions with their sometimes rather loose sense of obligation towards the core mechanics are useful here. Once you've reached level 6 abilities and higher you've surpassed human capability and ready understanding and it basically becomes whatever you can justify with the only clear limiting factor being that a level 6 power of one class is trumped by a level 7 power of the same class.

                How to handle this between gamelines though is definitely a good question though and one that I don't think has an easy answer. For me all I can say is that an ST should probably eyeball it and lean with whatever suits the chronicle.