Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Can you make the whole World of Darkness work together as one coherent universe?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I think that is a temptation fit try to fit everything else into the Mage world cosmology because, in a very broad sense, it can superficially encompass just about any other cosmology. Superficially, meaning that the appearance of God or the Wyrm or whatever can appear within it, but they lose their cosmological important. Essentially, it's unfair to those other cosmologies (and their gaminess) that are forced into becoming just one among countless other myths that human minds make seem real. That may not matter to some, but I do think that we lose something of value in doing this.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
      It actually does. The Triat, however it formed (umbral existences really are a chicken/egg kinda thing) does not conflict with Hermeticism. Hermeticism allows for any number of gods/demons and worlds between humanity and the one. Changers only look to the Triat/Gaia because it's all that concerns them, some changers even think Gaia is above the Triat which, i think, is ridiculous.
      But I think the point being made here, referring to Black Flag, Saur Ops, Sergeant, and Shakanaka's previous posts, is that a "Unified World of Darkness" that relies too much on real-world Hermeticism and Gnosticism is going to result in a Mage-centric perspective even if that isn't your explicit intention, because the Mage model was itself heavily influenced by those frameworks. Your own post demonstrates this when you note how Hermeticism accommodates "gods/demons and worlds between humanity and the one." (Emphasis mine)

      Explicit in this model is a notion of God/the One which is clearly analogous to the Abrahamic concept, with the Triat's role being lesser or subordinate to some extent.

      Less explicit is the point Saur Ops made previously about Hermeticism/Gnosticism being anthropocentric, with humans having a special relationship to divinity that simply doesn't mesh with WtA but does mesh well with Mage.

      Side note: I resolve the confusion of whether Gaia created the Triat or not by having there be two entities referred to as "Gaia"; one the Celestine of Earth, the other being the Higher Power embodied by the Triat.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Kharnov View Post
        Side note: I resolve the confusion of whether Gaia created the Triat or not by having there be two entities referred to as "Gaia"; one the Celestine of Earth, the other being the Higher Power embodied by the Triat.
        Yeah, W:tA cosmology is a bit weird in that regard. If Gaia is beyond the Triat, if she represents the universe or reality itself, then there is no way that humans hurting the environment is in any way harmful to her - unless the planet Earth itself is the center of existence and that gets into Mage territory. If Gaia is merely a spirit of earth’s biome, then human activity could indeed threaten her but she would far far beneath the Triat and her destruction wouldn’t be particularly significant to the universe. Werewolf cosmology does seem quite geocentric to me.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
          Yeah, W:tA cosmology is a bit weird in that regard. If Gaia is beyond the Triat, if she represents the universe or reality itself, then there is no way that humans hurting the environment is in any way harmful to her - unless the planet Earth itself is the center of existence and that gets into Mage territory. If Gaia is merely a spirit of earth’s biome, then human activity could indeed threaten her but she would far far beneath the Triat and her destruction wouldn’t be particularly significant to the universe. Werewolf cosmology does seem quite geocentric to me.
          And like Mage, that makes sense if you understand their cosmology as being Their Perspective, not Truth

          That's why I find the best way to be "fair" to all cosmologies is to let them all be correct to some degree, but less informed the further outside their own context they get, Blind People Describing an Elephant. I think you have a better chance of keeping some of the themes of every game intact by being willing to undermine them all to some extent, rather than undermining most of them to an unforgivable degree by placing one particular perspective on a pedestal.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
            Yeah, W:tA cosmology is a bit weird in that regard. If Gaia is beyond the Triat, if she represents the universe or reality itself, then there is no way that humans hurting the environment is in any way harmful to her - unless the planet Earth itself is the center of existence and that gets into Mage territory. If Gaia is merely a spirit of earth’s biome, then human activity could indeed threaten her but she would far far beneath the Triat and her destruction wouldn’t be particularly significant to the universe. Werewolf cosmology does seem quite geocentric to me.
            Two things. The first is the possibility of a chain of spiritual ills moving upward through nested avatar hierarchies. The second is that if there are many Gaias, as the Wagnerieans posit in W:tA, there's no guarantee that they aren't embroiled in their own struggles, possibly even having lost already. As such, what goes on in this cosmic neighborhood becomes very important, because it can't lean on anything else for a feeling of safety. There is no place across the stars to flee, there is no wandering spirit that can pull your fat from the frying pan - it all comes down to the here and now.

            Comment

            Working...
            X