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Can Arhats combat mages?

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  • Can Arhats combat mages?

    SO Arhats are incredibly powerful beings. What is the extent of their powers compared to mages?

    What kind of powers do Arhats have?

  • #2
    You mean Dharma 10 Wan Gui ?

    They resemble 3rd gens Methseulah in Golconda, and almost the embodies of their own Dharma
    They have access to level 10 KotE Disciplines in theory (if these powers do exist, though). Wan gui disciplines much like kindred ones
    They may have great social bonus when facing lesser wan gui

    Unfortunately not much canon concerns advanced wan gui powers, especially 9-10 ones, so, know little in general. But I think they could have a fight with archmages or even 3rd gens
    Last edited by Rock113; 06-10-2020, 04:30 AM.

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    • #3
      Well, given that Ravnos was fought by three Bodhisattvas (Minimum Dharma of 9) for a couple of days non-stop in the Week Of Nightmares, I think it's safe to say that Arhats (Minimum Dharma of 10) can do the same.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ambrosia View Post
        Well, given that Ravnos was fought by three Bodhisattvas (Minimum Dharma of 9) for a couple of days non-stop in the Week Of Nightmares, I think it's safe to say that Arhats (Minimum Dharma of 10) can do the same.
        What are some examples of power that an Arhat might have?

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        • #5
          I admittedly have no idea. I'm not the most well-versed when it comes to KotE
          I just remembered the Botthisattvas from Time of Thin Blood/Week of Nightmares.


          cWoD Dice Probability Chart ||| cWoD Dice Statistics Calculator ||| cWoD Alternative Armor System
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          EXPLOSIVE cWoD STUFF! ||| How Technocrats don't think they are Mages

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
            What are some examples of power that an Arhat might have?
            Few, but canon sitll has some details:
            Description about arhat and founder of Thrashing Dragon, Thousand Crane Mother:
            A mighty being, she fears little. She lives a life of natural harmony, surrounded by a hush of peace.
            And 1000 Hells say only an Arhat can singly face a weakened Yama King on Earth

            But materials contradict each other:
            1. Thousand Crane Mother hates madarin to approach her and only allows jina to do this because madarin is "more on her equal"? May mean gap between madarin and archat are not so big as elder and meth?
            2. three 2000+ years old boddhis can hinder an Antes a couple of days, but the exp system shows this age can't purchase ver high level powers because of the expensive traits...

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            • #7
              In fact few canon concerns the wan gui of this level, even the boddhi has little
              Mind you, Boddhi are equal to 4th gens kindred, and arhat is 3rd gens

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              • #8
                I do not think that Arhats have power equal to 3 generations. I would say that they embody their Dharma in themselves.
                We know that in the past they had some power, but because of their pride (or something else) they lost this power. They were the heroes who were supposed to protect the world from Yama King.
                Therefore, I think the spiritual component is much more important than the raw power and the scale of their abilities / disciplines.
                Last edited by Alphari; 06-10-2020, 11:50 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alphari View Post
                  I do not think that Arhats have power equal to 3 generations. I would say that they embody their Dharma in themselves.
                  Some thoughts:
                  1. No wan gui are as old as 3rd gens, in fact they are younger than kindred, as a splat, if you don't count history of wan xian.

                  2. I find a strange thing:
                  The Botthisattvas still active in modern era are all 2000+ years old, and Blood & Silk says the eldest wan guis active in Middle Age comes from Zhou Dynasty, which are also 2000+ years old. So I think that's one of the reasons why no really old wan gui left on earth: They will ascend or descend when at a certain age, just like mage

                  3. Botthisattvas and Arhats are not equal to Meths and Antes, exactly. They are inhumanly enlightened rather than terrible, they're not mindless monsters like Old Bad Vampires. So yes, it is inappropriate to compare them

                  4. Wan gui are still guardians who protect Middle Kingdom from the Yama Kings, but in a more twisted and special ways, well

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                  • #10
                    ​Ant are not mindless monsters. They just do not care about many others. I mean, they all have their own goals. But the mindless monster is Wight-Methuselah.

                    Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
                    2. I find a strange thing:
                    I probably know where the ancient vampires disappeared. They were all in the power of the Yama Kings. They did something bad after all. They were defeated in the past. They lost their strength and were exiled to Yama, or simply could not fight back from them.

                    Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
                    No wan gui are as old as 3rd gens
                    I mean that the powers available to them are somewhat less than the powers of the Cainites of 3 generations. 3rd generation is fundamentally different in this from others.

                    Their strength comes from Chi control, philosophical thoughts, 2 souls (or 1 soul?) and their own state of being. Wan xian always lived in some kind of "harmony" with the world. They study, ascend to heaven, try to find their lost place in the world. They are warriors, heroes or sages who have gone through many trials and have been gifted with great power. But this force was not supposed to threaten the world. They are warriors, not lords of heaven. Their powers can come more from philosophy than from the raw power of destruction or subjugation of the planet.

                    I very much doubt that the kings were so strong that they could not be defeated by an army of 10,000 methuselah / antediluvian.

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                    • #11
                      Only a Mage with Arch-Spheres could hope to defeat an Arhat or use OP wonders like the "Spirit-Nukes" (lol) that the Technocracy used to "defeat" Ravnos.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alphari View Post
                        ​I very much doubt that the kings were so strong that they could not be defeated by an army of 10,000 methuselah / antediluvian.
                        One of the most powerful yama kings, Tou Mu, a spirit from the second age, was killed by Voormas in Judgement of Ascension

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                        • #13
                          Voormas had appeared in 1000 Hells
                          Page 34, the silent stronghold of Tou Mu
                          Her honored guest, the chi’n at Voormas, perhaps the greatest of Kali’s children, resides here while he avoids the justice of those he betrayed.
                          I suspect they had designed ToJ from this time

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
                            One of the most powerful yama kings, Tou Mu, a spirit from the second age, was killed by Voormas in Judgement of Ascension
                            But he isnt wan xian.

                            No one said that all kings are fighters. I doubt that he came and waved his staff and the king died. He should have had reasons to do this, as well as have allies. Otherwise, it would be too ... unreasonable and risky.
                            As far as I remember, he stole VERY powerful artifacts. He is also not a simple archmage. He is an oracle, an archmage with Arete 7-9, a madman who is afraid of death.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alphari View Post
                              But he isnt wan xian.

                              No one said that all kings are fighters. I doubt that he came and waved his staff and the king died. He should have had reasons to do this, as well as have allies. Otherwise, it would be too ... unreasonable and risky.
                              As far as I remember, he stole VERY powerful artifacts. He is also not a simple archmage. He is an oracle, an archmage with Arete 7-9, a madman who is afraid of death.

                              Wait, steal artifacts? Didn't ol' Voorn actually absorb the very essence of the Yama King to stop death itself?


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