Why is Mummy: The Resurrection so unliked?

[Bluecho]

the only thing that sucked about mummy is from what I remember you had to keep the game in egypt around the nile river or you would start to loose your powers. I think thats the way it was anyway, I could be wrong as I haven't really read one of the mummy books in about 5 ish years

I haven't ever done a deep read into any of the Mummy books, so I can't speak for MtR. But as I recall from Mummy 1st Ed, you left your body and traveled through the spirit worlds, collecting energy in a more narrative way. Which may or may not have required making deals with spirits, depending on ST fiat.

So while you needed to spend a bunch of time traveling, it was astral travel. Often, you'd be disembodied anyway, if you got killed, so gathering energy was a natural thing to do (indeed, required to resurrect). No bodily travel to Northern Africa, which sounds altogether less fun or flavorful.

[kalinara]

the only thing that sucked about mummy is from what I remember you had to keep the game in egypt around the nile river or you would start to loose your powers. I think thats the way it was anyway, I could be wrong as I haven't really read one of the mummy books in about 5 ish years

I think this kind of thing is why it was a shame that Mummy didn't get more supplements. Usually when the games introduce a mechanic like this, they end up introducing additional options for workarounds in later books. Unfortunately, because we only have the two, the storyteller and players are stuck working around a fairly substantial geographic restriction. It's not the end of the world, of course, and could even be fun to utilize, but it is rather limiting.

[nothing]

Here's the thing about Mummy, and this is from someone that likes M:tR: If I wanted to play a tortured and angst-ridden immortal, I'd just play Vampire. If I wanted to play an Egyptian magic-user, I'd just play Mage. If I wanted to spend time carousing in the Shadowlands, I'd just play Wraith. Add this to the fact that most people don't think Mummies are sexy or fun, even after Anne Rice published Ramses the Damned and Brendan Fraser starred with Rachel Weisz in that one movie (what was it called...?).

Also, like this thread demonstrates, there was some misunderstanding about the Web of Faith and geographical necessity. Amenti could live anywhere in the world; they only needed to return to the Web of Faith to restore their Sekham - their magic juice, basically. Even then the core book provided means of restoring Sekham without having to make a pilgrimage. Mummies gained some naturally at a very slow rate, and could store it in phylacteries for later use. Really, unless a character was burning through their magic juice at an egregious rate, they could spend years away from Egypt.

[Shakanaka]

Amenti could live anywhere in the world; they only needed to return to the Web of Faith to restore their Sekham - their magic juice

Ah, I remember this bit when I got a chance of reading Resurrection. I remember you had to have jars imbued with Sekhtem as a workaround if you didn't want to go back to Egypt to recuperate your energy, lol.

[kalinara]

I admit, I did forget about that. It's been awhile.

I do feel like additional supplements would have fleshed out additional options more. But then, I'm the sort of person who wants more supplements for everything anyway. :-)

[Dezeroth]

I think this kind of thing is why it was a shame that Mummy didn't get more supplements. Usually when the games introduce a mechanic like this, they end up introducing additional options for workarounds in later books. Unfortunately, because we only have the two, the storyteller and players are stuck working around a fairly substantial geographic restriction. It's not the end of the world, of course, and could even be fun to utilize, but it is rather limiting.

I haven't ever done a deep read into any of the Mummy books, so I can't speak for MtR. But as I recall from Mummy 1st Ed, you left your body and traveled through the spirit worlds, collecting energy in a more narrative way. Which may or may not have required making deals with spirits, depending on ST fiat.

So while you needed to spend a bunch of time traveling, it was astral travel. Often, you'd be disembodied anyway, if you got killed, so gathering energy was a natural thing to do (indeed, required to resurrect). No bodily travel to Northern Africa, which sounds altogether less fun or flavorful.

if I had ever gotten a group together for it I would have just handwaved that away, I would keep the resurrection mechanics but would loose the you have to be by the nile to keep your powers part.

[Mister_Dunpeal]

MtR was a great line it just came out too late to get any real development the way Mage/Werewolf/Vampire did (Demon had the same issue, and to a certain extent so did Hunter.) And as TyrannicalRabbit noted it's always been kind of a niche setting so that doesn't give it the same kind of major recognition that Vampire is likely to get. And that visibility probably played a role in it getting modernized. (Although I think if you could get enough people to request it or fund it you might still see something like this happen. Sort of like the Technocracy reloaded maybe.

I've generally just done what I do with even the bigger settings. I borrow stuff from other stuff when it suits my purposes (borrowing stuff from Chronicles to be repurposed can be quite useful here. Esp WoD Immortals as I mentioned in another thread.)

[The Cat Came Back]

Well, there was the awkwardness of a game where your characters had to spend a substantial amount of time in the Middle East... being released in the early 2000's... "Hmmm, do I want to try to portray the Second Intifada or the Iraq War at my table? UHHHHHH NOPE"

[Heavy Arms]

Reducing the whole Middle East to Israel and Iraq doesn't really seem like it's doing any favors to people that might balk at that specific aspect of the game; esp. since the Iraq War didn't start until two years after MtR was released.

[The Cat Came Back]

Reducing the whole Middle East to Israel and Iraq doesn't really seem like it's doing any favors to people that might balk at that specific aspect of the game; esp. since the Iraq War didn't start until two years after MtR was released.

And most opportunities to play the game have come in the nineteen years hence, right? My point is that events of the last two decades have probably made a lot of people reluctant to tackle a game whose core setting is the middle east. To play M:tR, you would either have to address these issues (which can lead to a lot of "situations" at the table) or you have to ignore it - which brings its own awkwardness to the table.

I very much suspect this is why the game line only ever got a core and a player's guide. Even Orpheus got six books. I think White Wolf saw the timing of the product, its setting, and their past track record (Holy War, really, really?!) and just noped right out.

[Heavy Arms]

And most opportunities to play the game have come in the nineteen years hence, right?

OK... the Second Intifada ended 15 years ago, so why'd that come up?

My point is that events of the last two decades have probably made a lot of people reluctant to tackle a game whose core setting is the middle east.

I would say unfamiliarity with the Middle East is far more likely than that. I'm reminded of an article from the 2nd by the Thai Inquirer where they used the current police brutality protests to highlight how non-European countries are often framed by European media. You're basically saying that if you run a game in the USA, you either have to include police murdering unarmed black people which people aren't going to enjoy having come up all the time in a game, or completely and problematically erase the presence of racism in the USA.

Most groups that set their games in the US manage to balance not addressing racism head on, and not pretending that racism in the US doesn't exist. Likewise, anyone that's seriously considering running a game set somewhere in the Web of Faith (which is actually bigger than the traditional concept of the Middle East) can easily manage to not have a game focused on sectarian violence, and not white wash the problems current to when their game is set.

I very much suspect this is why the game line only ever got a core and a player's guide. Even Orpheus got six books. I think White Wolf saw the timing of the product, its setting, and their past track record (Holy War, really, really?!) and just noped right out.

This seems rather unlikely.

First, Orpheus got six books because it was supposed to get six books. It was green lit as a six-book thing (something unique for WW). The covers of the supplements all say, "Book X of a six book series" on them. Mummy, not being pitched like that, didn't have a set promise of a number of books to keep.

Second, the original WoD line run was ended three years after Mummy's first book came out. Combined with the lack of plans for a series of books like Orpheus, the normal supplement treadmill got really busy with other things once the decision to end the games was made. Mummy was also always a supplemental game line (MtR doesn't even have a proper core book), so of course it was a low priority without any further rationales.

[theoutlander523]

MtR is great except for a few massive issues.
First off, it's unplayable without the errata cause they changed some major stuff the week before sending it to the printer.
Secondly, unless you have a 7pt merit, you're basically bound to Egypt unless you're really lucky and find a free Node to steal from.
Thirdly, you're not really a mummy. Death is super expensive to come back from, so you're not really wanting to die ever. You're more akin to a Geist from CofD than anything. Yeah, you can come back from the dead but doing so costs XP which will make you weaker than your teammates that didn't, so you're likely to die again in the next big fight for not being as possible. In the MOBA video game, this is called lacking a come back mechanic.
Fourthly, the magic sucks. For a game where you deal with Mages, your spells kinda suck unless you have an asston of Lifeforce to make Talismans/Potions or time to learn their true name. You can't do freeform spells either, which really screws you against Mages, whose super power is being creative. Sure, you have innate countermagick, but it's basically worse than Primium unless you're a powerful mummy. Oh and the spells cost XP to learn and have training times. It's honestly easier to just convert the sorcery Paths into either Sorcerer's Revised ones or Minor Spheres mechanically. You get the same results and the game is more fun IMO.
Fifthly, the lore. The Player's Guide tried to help with this by switching some words to English, but the terminology is all in Egyptian and thus super hard to remember. Having couple words here or there are fine when they're really unique terms, but there are so many terms that you forgot what is what sometimes. Takes a while to remember them.
Sixth, the different types of Amenti are terrible. They each have their own perk, but the flaw vastly outweighs them for most. There are only two that are really playable. Like one is you get a +2 difficulty on all Perception and Wits rolls, and suffer a -2 to your initiative, all for the grand power to get dice equal to your Balance to heal someone's damage. Another gets a free reroll of a dice pool with their Balance rating each day but loses 2 dice during the night; I'm sorry, but aren't you supposed to fight vampires? These feel more like a gimping than a benefit.
Seventh, no aggravated soak innately. At least werewolves get that benefit in a setting where agg damage is thrown around like candy.
Eighth, you're not some ancient being returned from the world. You're just some guy who died and got a second chance. Yeah, you have visions of the past, but you're piss weak. In 2e you had a massive spread of stats that made you at least some what powerful due to your age, though I'd argue it still wasn't enough as elder vampires have 300+ XP and Methuselah have 750+ XP. In MtR you basically have the same starting stats as a neonate vampire, but without the benefits of being undead. You're not much stronger than a normal human really.

All these add together to where you basically feel like you're playing a slightly weird Tremere Ghoul whose Domitor is low generation and wants to kill all vampires. It's really, really sad for a game where you're supposed to be playing immortal sorcerer kings returned to the new age.
Could you fix all of this and make mummies really fun to play? Yeah. How would you do it? Basically fix 2e Mummy or just reverse engineer Mummy the Cursed.
White Wolf really never got mummies to feel like mummies, which is sad since the Mummy movie came out around the peak for WoD. Could they fix it with a Mu20? Yes. I'd want DaveB to be the one to right it since he's an absolute madman that would make them feel like mummies, while having the MtC devs do the fluff. Maybe throw Deadman in there for quality sake.

[Ravnos]

MtR is great except for a few massive issues.
First off, it's unplayable without the errata cause they changed some major stuff the week before sending it to the printer.
Secondly, unless you have a 7pt merit, you're basically bound to Egypt unless you're really lucky and find a free Node to steal from.
Thirdly, you're not really a mummy. Death is super expensive to come back from, so you're not really wanting to die ever. You're more akin to a Geist from CofD than anything. Yeah, you can come back from the dead but doing so costs XP which will make you weaker than your teammates that didn't, so you're likely to die again in the next big fight for not being as possible. In the MOBA video game, this is called lacking a come back mechanic.
Fourthly, the magic sucks. For a game where you deal with Mages, your spells kinda suck unless you have an asston of Lifeforce to make Talismans/Potions or time to learn their true name. You can't do freeform spells either, which really screws you against Mages, whose super power is being creative. Sure, you have innate countermagick, but it's basically worse than Primium unless you're a powerful mummy. Oh and the spells cost XP to learn and have training times. It's honestly easier to just convert the sorcery Paths into either Sorcerer's Revised ones or Minor Spheres mechanically. You get the same results and the game is more fun IMO.
Fifthly, the lore. The Player's Guide tried to help with this by switching some words to English, but the terminology is all in Egyptian and thus super hard to remember. Having couple words here or there are fine when they're really unique terms, but there are so many terms that you forgot what is what sometimes. Takes a while to remember them.
Sixth, the different types of Amenti are terrible. They each have their own perk, but the flaw vastly outweighs them for most. There are only two that are really playable. Like one is you get a +2 difficulty on all Perception and Wits rolls, and suffer a -2 to your initiative, all for the grand power to get dice equal to your Balance to heal someone's damage. Another gets a free reroll of a dice pool with their Balance rating each day but loses 2 dice during the night; I'm sorry, but aren't you supposed to fight vampires? These feel more like a gimping than a benefit.
Seventh, no aggravated soak innately. At least werewolves get that benefit in a setting where agg damage is thrown around like candy.
Eighth, you're not some ancient being returned from the world. You're just some guy who died and got a second chance. Yeah, you have visions of the past, but you're piss weak. In 2e you had a massive spread of stats that made you at least some what powerful due to your age, though I'd argue it still wasn't enough as elder vampires have 300+ XP and Methuselah have 750+ XP. In MtR you basically have the same starting stats as a neonate vampire, but without the benefits of being undead. You're not much stronger than a normal human really.

All these add together to where you basically feel like you're playing a slightly weird Tremere Ghoul whose Domitor is low generation and wants to kill all vampires. It's really, really sad for a game where you're supposed to be playing immortal sorcerer kings returned to the new age.
Could you fix all of this and make mummies really fun to play? Yeah. How would you do it? Basically fix 2e Mummy or just reverse engineer Mummy the Cursed.
White Wolf really never got mummies to feel like mummies, which is sad since the Mummy movie came out around the peak for WoD. Could they fix it with a Mu20? Yes. I'd want DaveB to be the one to right it since he's an absolute madman that would make them feel like mummies, while having the MtC devs do the fluff. Maybe throw Deadman in there for quality sake.

Necro-posting this because I really liked your write-up that sums up the many issues I have with MtR.
I recently thought to rework 1e/2e mummies and reverse engineer Mummy the Curse, to have a mummy game to propose my group.
But I'm planning to use V5 rules, because I like the streamlining and my current group is familiar with them.

What do you think are the absolutely necessary things that must be there to feel like you're playing a mummy character?


P.S. I blame Moon Knight series for my rejuvenated interest in egyptian mythology (btw re-reading the Amenti article on the white wolf wiki really reminds of much happenings in the series)

[CajunKhan]

I didn't hate it, I just wasn't interested in it. There's a reason why there are a gazillion vampire movies, and a large number of movies about wizards, frankenstein monsters, werewolves, and ghosts. Those are the S-tier and A-tier of classic monsters. Mummies are just further down the list in terms of interest. Try as a might, I've never been able to get excited about playing a mummy. It's not the mechanics fault, it's just that mummies are..eh..to me.

[Shakanaka]

I think a way to fix Resurrection Mummies, would be to just allow the players to use Ascension magick mechanics without any paradox. It'd simulate accurately how magickally OP mummies are supposed to be in the first place.