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Why is Mummy: The Resurrection so unliked?

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  • #46
    As someone who was a fan of the supplement line of WoD Mummy books, and is a bigger fan of Mummy the Curse(not Resurrection's fault really, it was never a full game line after all) I would not want to make Resurrection more like Curse. Different worlds, different ideas, and I like the contrast CAS made.


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    • #47
      Originally posted by Prometheas View Post

      The one thing Mummies have that are fully unique to them is the idea that they are 100% fully immortal, not the kind of Diet "immortality with exceptions" other supernaturals have.

      One way to highlight this is have the "death" mechanic in the game be different. For example: use the Shemsu-heru/Amenti system adambeyoncelowe proposes with the caveat that When(not if) the Shemsu-heru "dies" and the group ends their time in this era, they don't roll new character's and instead continue playing the same character X years into the future.

      This gives the ST more room to be a bit more murderous and makes inevitable death part of the mechanics. The theme of the game changes to essentially be "survive long enough to accomplish objective X in this lifetime" and whenever the group inevitably Dies, they see the results of their decisions on the next era. This could have reaching consequences like having a groups failure make them Responcible for pentex or the technocracy forming in the first place, or a victory preventing the age of apocalypse occuring in the medieval era.



      This would also be a good game to talk about. Supplements like Devil's due showed that the WOD writing team were trying to experiment with the formulae, but that probably isn't a tangent appropriate to the thread.
      So I love this. The idea of a ticking clock to finish their next big work before death -- perhaps combined with the suggestion upthread that the longer the gap between death and resurrection, the less they remember, meaning their servants have to rush to awaken them quickly too -- adds a sense of pressure and conflict. It is also, as you say, ripe for storytelling.

      I would add in a robust downtime system to make this work. I love the Endeavours system in Warhammer 4e, and I think a similar system of 'Interludes' could work really well in MTR.

      So let's say that each story is a set timeframe: one era, one resurrection, one project, with a countdown to the inevitable death. Something has happened in the Underworld, so Sekhem is rare, and this means everyone is going to die -- but you can make it heroic. You can do a lot in the time you have.

      In a sense, this almost makes it a comment on the fleetingness of our own lives and the importance of doing something, while leaving a legacy for the future generations.

      Each time someone dies, their player can take over one of the Amenti lost loves/reincarnated servants/eternal companions, who in turn is the leader of the dead mummy's cult. When everyone has died, the current era ends, there are some Interludes to wrap up the loose ends and set up the next era, and then the mummies revive in a new time and place.

      But, if you do really well as the Amenti during the Interlude, you can speed up the turning of the wheel and bring back the Shemsu-Heru sooner, with more of their memories and more of their regained power.

      So you could theoretically have a game set in the Middle Ages, then the Renaissance, then the Industrial Revolution, then WWII, then Vietnam, then the 80s, the 90s, the 00s, etc.

      Or you can have a game that follows characters who wake up every year for a decade, covering a specific time period in much greater detail.

      I'm loving this. I'm so tempted to write something up based on this, TBH.
      Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 05-22-2022, 01:25 PM.


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      • #48
        Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
        I'm loving this. I'm so tempted to write something up based on this, TBH.
        Go for it! I was already thinking before this discussion happened that instead of making Mummy its own game line, it could have worked as a series of supplements for each of the historical settings that White Wolf put out -- the Dark Medieval, the Dark Fantastic, the Savage West, and the Fourth Great Maelstrom -- plus its own historical setting in ancient Egypt. But your and Prometheas' suggestions are a more fully realized version of that germ of an idea.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
          So I love this. The idea of a ticking clock to finish their next big work before death -- perhaps combined with the suggestion upthread that the longer the gap between death and resurrection, the less they remember, meaning their servants have to rush to awaken them quickly too -- adds a sense of pressure and conflict. It is also, as you say, ripe for storytelling.

          I would add in a robust downtime system to make this work. I love the Endeavours system in Warhammer 4e, and I think a similar system of 'Interludes' could work really well in MTR.

          So let's say that each story is a set timeframe: one era, one resurrection, one project, with a countdown to the inevitable death. Something has happened in the Underworld, so Sekhem is rare, and this means everyone is going to die -- but you can make it heroic. You can do a lot in the time you have.

          In a sense, this almost makes it a comment on the fleetingness of our own lives and the importance of doing something, while leaving a legacy for the future generations.

          Each time someone dies, their player can take over one of the Amenti lost loves/reincarnated servants/eternal companions, who in turn is the leader of the dead mummy's cult. When everyone has died, the current era ends, there are some Interludes to wrap up the loose ends and set up the next era, and then the mummies revive in a new time and place.

          But, if you do really well as the Amenti during the Interlude, you can speed up the turning of the wheel and bring back the Shemsu-Heru sooner, with more of their memories and more of their regained power.

          So you could theoretically have a game set in the Middle Ages, then the Renaissance, then the Industrial Revolution, then WWII, then Vietnam, then the 80s, the 90s, the 00s, etc.

          Or you can have a game that follows characters who wake up every year for a decade, covering a specific time period in much greater detail.

          I'm loving this. I'm so tempted to write something up based on this, TBH.
          An easy way to justify having the time periods be inconsistent is to say that mummies are given a mission directly by Osiris and the Judges of Ma'at when their spirit is sent out of the underworld to resurrect. Horus an CO. could essentially have a timetable of events that Need to happen to ensure their effects butterfly-effect outwards to achieve a perfect future.

          A metaphor for this could be the Arc of Ra. If Ra's boat leaves the river of time, it'll wander into the jaws of Apophis and the the world will be cast in darkness. To prevent this Osiris, Horus and the mummies have essentially mapped out all of the "courses" Ra's boat can take that will lead them to safely out the other end, but Apophis isn't Idle either and can stir the waters in the river to try and drive them off course.

          This way we can also avoid stepping on WTA's toes of being about delaying an inevitable apocalypse, instead being about accepting things like an "apocalypse" are inevitable, but ultimately still blips on the cosmic radar, and that the real prize is making sure humanity can get out the other end alive(even if not unscathed).

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Prometheas View Post

            A metaphor for this could be the Arc of Ra. If Ra's boat leaves the river of time, it'll wander into the jaws of Apophis and the the world will be cast in darkness. To prevent this Osiris, Horus and the mummies have essentially mapped out all of the "courses" Ra's boat can take that will lead them to safely out the other end, but Apophis isn't Idle either and can stir the waters in the river to try and drive them off course.
            Of course, once or twice Apep is lucky and manage to swallow Ra... an Eclipse is/was a frigthening phenomena thats for sure
            Last edited by Shadeprowler; 05-22-2022, 04:04 PM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
              So I love this. The idea of a ticking clock to finish their next big work before death
              I have to point out that there's no need for an "inevitable death" in this. Instead of each arc ending with all characters dying, you can simply set up downtime rules for both dead and living characters until the group's next "mission", so to speak. Those who live have a chance to stay alive until then, those who die have a chance to come back earlier and even multiple times. They may have their individual projects and activities still during this time until the next arc, when fate or something unite the group again.


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              • #52
                My thinking on the lukewarm response to Resurrection is that people interested in a mummy game want to play an ancient mummy. And modern day human with a peace of an ancient soul grafted onto them didn’t tickle that itch. I know that was why while I liked elements of it, i never felt driven to play an Amenti the way I’d tinkered with playing a Shemsu-Heru, and have relished Mummy: the Curse.

                that’s just my feeling though, I have done no polling on the subject


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                • #53
                  Originally posted by TyrannicalRabbit View Post
                  As someone who was a fan of the supplement line of WoD Mummy books, and is a bigger fan of Mummy the Curse(not Resurrection's fault really, it was never a full game line after all) I would not want to make Resurrection more like Curse. Different worlds, different ideas, and I like the contrast CAS made.
                  i wouldn’t alter Resurrection to be more like Curse, but I would consider whole cloth replacing it, and have horror-story Mummies in the WoD bound to underworld judges with no sense of mercy or modern values.


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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Elphilm View Post
                    Go for it! I was already thinking before this discussion happened that instead of making Mummy its own game line, it could have worked as a series of supplements for each of the historical settings that White Wolf put out -- the Dark Medieval, the Dark Fantastic, the Savage West, and the Fourth Great Maelstrom -- plus its own historical setting in ancient Egypt. But your and Prometheas' suggestions are a more fully realized version of that germ of an idea.
                    Well I've already started now. That's me wasting the rest of my week. 😜

                    Originally posted by Prometheas View Post

                    An easy way to justify having the time periods be inconsistent is to say that mummies are given a mission directly by Osiris and the Judges of Ma'at when their spirit is sent out of the underworld to resurrect. Horus an CO. could essentially have a timetable of events that Need to happen to ensure their effects butterfly-effect outwards to achieve a perfect future.

                    A metaphor for this could be the Arc of Ra. If Ra's boat leaves the river of time, it'll wander into the jaws of Apophis and the the world will be cast in darkness. To prevent this Osiris, Horus and the mummies have essentially mapped out all of the "courses" Ra's boat can take that will lead them to safely out the other end, but Apophis isn't Idle either and can stir the waters in the river to try and drive them off course.

                    This way we can also avoid stepping on WTA's toes of being about delaying an inevitable apocalypse, instead being about accepting things like an "apocalypse" are inevitable, but ultimately still blips on the cosmic radar, and that the real prize is making sure humanity can get out the other end alive(even if not unscathed).
                    I like this a lot.

                    Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                    I have to point out that there's no need for an "inevitable death" in this. Instead of each arc ending with all characters dying, you can simply set up downtime rules for both dead and living characters until the group's next "mission", so to speak. Those who live have a chance to stay alive until then, those who die have a chance to come back earlier and even multiple times. They may have their individual projects and activities still during this time until the next arc, when fate or something unite the group again.
                    Very true. And that's a good idea. There's nothing wrong with some mummies surviving between missions, either.

                    The only issue would be power level between characters. But I guess you can control for that by having those longer-lived mummies starting the next story with reduced overall lifeforce, since it would have been ebbing away over time, whereas those who rise again start afresh. Or there can be something like Blood Potency that has strengths and drawbacks.

                    I'll think on it and return to this thread tomorrow. I also want to think about how to play around with the colonial tropes of the mummy genre. To make it something a bit different, and a bit more from the POV of the mummy than the tomb raider.


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                    • #55
                      Curse is actually very interesting but it does have distinct thematic differences from Resurrection and the previous supplements. I don't think they're inconsistent so much as different approaches to a similar topic (quasi mortal or half-undead immortals unlike all the others). Resurrection and the previous supplements had broached the idea of each culture/country having their own approach to this sort of 'immortality' and there's no reason Curse couldn't be another (equally major) variation on immortality. If anything I feel like one of Resurrection's flaws was to try to shoehorn the previous supplements into the MtR paradigm - keeping alot of the previous factions from Mummy 2nd would have been more interesting.

                      I also thought the 'Immortals' supplement from chronicles was another good complement to the oWoD mummy stuff for much that same reason (a way to get different 'flavors' of immortality) and it even made me consider that perhaps the Mummy/Immortal approach would be an interesting way to 'import' the Highlander mythos into WoD/CoD (reflect yet another semi-major brand of 'immortality' for a different country.)


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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                        i wouldn’t alter Resurrection to be more like Curse, but I would consider whole cloth replacing it, and have horror-story Mummies in the WoD bound to underworld judges with no sense of mercy or modern values.
                        No thank you. I have Curse for that and I like the hope of Resurrection in contrast to the WoD.


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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bluecho View Post

                          ...

                          You are the Ouroboros, eternal and self-contained. You just ARE.

                          What makes you horrific to mortals isn't that you must do evil just to exist. If you do harm, it's because you want to. And because you subscribe to a worldview informed by bygone civilization and a perspective on time that most creatures cannot fathom. You have forgotten more than most people have ever known. You have no progenitors breathing down your neck, no torment, no avatar, and no banality. Few other factions in the World of Darkness even know you exist, because you predate most of them, and will be here long after they've faded from everyone's memory, including your own.

                          What makes you horrific is also what makes you tragic: you will never die. You will always be here. What, then, will you do with your time? And how will your actions, seemingly inconsequential in the moment, indelibly mark the world by design or happenstance?

                          ...
                          Reading this actually gave me goosebumps.

                          It was a very short experimental campaign, but I once played an MtR character and honestly it was one of my favorite ever. The game suffered from all the problems mentioned in this thread - the character was pretty weak and pathetic, barely stronger than a mortal human, and since it took place in the Middle East which is an area of the world no one in my gaming group are very familiar with, there was a setting comprehension issue. But something about the idea that the character simply would never die was extremely compelling to me. The campaign didn't last, unfortunately, and my group is never likely to play Mummy again, but I will never forget that character.

                          Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post

                          Well I've already started now. That's me wasting the rest of my week. 😜

                          ...

                          I'll think on it and return to this thread tomorrow. I also want to think about how to play around with the colonial tropes of the mummy genre. To make it something a bit different, and a bit more from the POV of the mummy than the tomb raider.
                          adambeyoncelowe, I for one am eagerly awaiting whatever you come up with. I wrote up a quick introduction just to set the mood, strongly based on what Bluecho wrote (quoted above). I'll probably pitch this idea to my gaming group at some point, to play these immortal characters with some basic house rules at least:


                          1) Characters would essentially be mages using the mage rules. Slightly higher starting stats, and no paradigm/practice required. They don't need instruments, their magick is simply their will. Paradox would still happen, but it would be less than in a typical mage game.

                          2) The game would span millennia. If a character died, the player would take over their attendant Amenti for the remainder of that story - basically a weaker version of their character, but the Amenti revives much more quickly if/when they die.

                          3) Other details yet to be determined. Like possibly all the innate powers from HtR, DtF, WtA, and/or KoE. Examples are an extreme resistance to mental and spiritual manipulation, the ability to soak lethal and/or aggravated damage, enhanced senses (basically Auspex 1), the ability to heal by expending quintessence (even without Life magick), Ghostsight/Lifesight (from KoE) even without Spirit magick, the ability to innately speak with spirits/ghosts, the ability to step sideways, etc...




                          Long ago, at the dawn of civilization, a great truth became known – the entirety of human existence is not to last forever. The great Maw, named Apophis, is lurking at the End to devour all that ever was. This End shall not be avoided, not even by the will of all the Gods combined. It is certain.

                          What is not certain is whether something can exist beyond this End.

                          All the Gods together mapped the entirety of the course of human future and discovered many pitfalls, any of which will steer the Wheel directly into the Maw, but if these pitfalls could be avoided, then who knows what new great truth could emerge?

                          A plan was formed and you and others like you were given eternal Life by Osiris, the great God of Life. You were given the Will to endure by Isis, the great Goddess of humanity. You were given the Power to enact your Will by Ra, the great God of the Sun. Success is not guaranteed, and even so success cannot avoid the End, because the End is certain. But perhaps, just perhaps, there can be some kind of future for mankind beyond the End and for all eternity.

                          You are the Ouroboros, eternal and self-contained. You have existed since the dawn of civilization and you will exist until the end of Time, even beyond the End of mankind, regardless of the outcome. Know that if you fail eternity will be lonely indeed, a Hell that I pray you will never know. For your own sake, do not fail.

                          You are a horror from the depths of prehistory. Your are horrific not because you are evil, but because everything you do is entirely your choice. You have no morality except that which you enforce upon yourself, and there are no consequences for your actions beyond whether or not you succeed in your ultimate mission.

                          You will never die. What, then, will you do with your time? And how will your actions mark the world?

                          Credit for this to Bluecho


                          Anyway, this idea is going to stew for awhile and maybe will never see the light of day, but we shall see.
                          Last edited by breggie; 06-01-2022, 12:28 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by breggie View Post
                            adambeyoncelowe, I for one am eagerly awaiting whatever you come up with. I wrote up a quick introduction just to set the mood, strongly based on what Bluecho wrote (quoted above). I'll probably pitch this idea to my gaming group at some point, to play these immortal characters with some basic house rules at least:


                            1) Characters would essentially be mages using the mage rules. Slightly higher starting stats, and no paradigm/practice required. They don't need instruments, their magick is simply their will. Paradox would still happen, but it would be less than in a typical mage game.

                            Personally not a fan of tying mummies to mage like that(especially given how crossover-unfriendly mages mechanics are). Mummies are Incredibly powerful with the normal Hekau rules anyway, with things like erasing an antedeluvian from existence being a 5th level spell for them.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Prometheas View Post


                              Personally not a fan of tying mummies to mage like that(especially given how crossover-unfriendly mages mechanics are). Mummies are Incredibly powerful with the normal Hekau rules anyway, with things like erasing an antedeluvian from existence being a 5th level spell for them.
                              I wouldn't say "tying mummies to mage", just that my version would use the same magick rules as mage and be capable of the same things. The thing I liked least about Mummy is the Hekau - they seem pretty limited and boring to me, even more so considering these creatures are supposed to be millennia old and exceptionally powerful. Mage sphere magick fills that void nicely IMO, particularly if you do away with all the instrument/foci rules and just let them do whatever their learned spheres say they should be able to do by just their will alone, as though their Arete rating were 10, even if it is not.

                              Also, for me specifically, I and my gaming group are far more familiar with the mage rules than the mummy rules.

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                              • #60
                                If mummies get magick, they should probably have DA-style Pillars. That's how old they are. And, I think, it makes them equivalent to the liches of the Tal'mahe'Ra, who also have Pillars.


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