Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Worst WoD idea you’ve ever heard?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Trippy View Post

    Well, I think this is half the problem here. You are taking terms that have established meanings and then redefining them.

    Being "socially liberal" does not mean 'people don’t tell you what to do’ - it has a particular political definition. It is largely used to differentiate between different attitudes to what being ‘liberal’ means on the political spectrum. While it remains a bit of a pigeonhole still, the left tend to regard 'social liberalism' in higher emphasis than 'economic liberalism', which is emphasised by the right. That is, left wing politics tend to emphasise social liberalism and economic regulation, while right wing thinkers favour social conservatism and economic liberalism.

    There is a broader conflict in ideology between Liberalism as a whole and Authoritarianism, but really the Hegelian Dialectic-style antagonist to Authoritarianism that you are citing is Anarchism.


    Erm... how to articulate this politely?
    "Socially liberal" is a literal way to describe being liberal on a social scale, and by liberal I mean 'freedom'. 'news' being able to report on whatever they like regardless of truth is a liberal social policy. That people can access firearms is a liberal social policy (America is truly a mess). Your "Particular political definition" pedantry here hinges upon an Americanism brought about by the deliberately convoluted nature of american political discourse. "socially liberal" would literally means a hands off approach to social policies, and may appear progressive insofar as that it often aims to achieve equality through not favouring or disenfranchising any group. In the Ideal, that would mean removing the conservative laws that seperate people, but in actuality it sometimes means people make legislation to give specific people that were previously marginalized explicit rights.

    And to the point being made, I don’t think Anarchists are responsible for the rise in climate change denial.
    Because it's not about the point I wanted to make, it's about the point you can contrive in bad faith through willful misconstruction of my words. Yes, Of course I meant that the Koch brothers are flag waving anarchists. Of course that's what I meant. Let's not imagine I was refering to the homeland of climate-change denial, the "land of the free" as a place where private interests control national and regional goverments so that they do not in turn control what these private interests do. Powerful Private interests controling the goverment and limiting it's power where it suits them gives us an interesting world where the poor have many rules to abide by and the rich have few.

    "Conservatism for the poor, liberty for the rich" is the absolute best system for, say, the Koch brothers. Is that Anarchism? Evidently not, it's just what happens when you give Libertarians enough time. Cursed be snakes.


    All of this is why I love Vampire games set in the USA so much.






    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

    Comment


    • I think it’s a bit odd to blame libertarians for corporate control over politics when libertarians have almost zero power in Washington, virtually no control over institutions, and are pretty much opposed by all of the big money interests. Most of the pro-corporate policies in the USA aren’t letting by businesses get away with what they want, it’s actually funding them.

      Anyway, this is a tangent, we might want to stick to WoD.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
        Erm... how to articulate this politely?
        "Socially liberal" is a literal way to describe being liberal on a social scale, and by liberal I mean 'freedom'. 'news' being able to report on whatever they like regardless of truth is a liberal social policy. That people can access firearms is a liberal social policy (America is truly a mess). Your "Particular political definition" pedantry here hinges upon an Americanism brought about by the deliberately convoluted nature of american political discourse. "socially liberal" would literally means a hands off approach to social policies, and may appear progressive insofar as that it often aims to achieve equality through not favouring or disenfranchising any group. In the Ideal, that would mean removing the conservative laws that seperate people, but in actuality it sometimes means people make legislation to give specific people that were previously marginalized explicit rights.
        It is not my definition, it is THE definition of 'socially liberal' - which you are choosing to redefine. It’s not as if you made any attempt to define your terms first either - so you just made a comment based on a definition that nobody else uses. It is not a great way to argue your points.

        COLOR=#252C2F]
        Because it's not about the point I wanted to make, it's about the point you can contrive in bad faith through willful misconstruction of my words. Yes, Of course I meant that the Koch brothers are flag waving anarchists. Of course that's what I meant. Let's not imagine I was refering to the homeland of climate-change denial, the "land of the free" as a place where private interests control national and regional goverments so that they do not in turn control what these private interests do. Powerful Private interests controling the goverment and limiting it's power where it suits them gives us an interesting world where the poor have many rules to abide by and the rich have few.

        "Conservatism for the poor, liberty for the rich" is the absolute best system for, say, the Koch brothers. Is that Anarchism? Evidently not, it's just what happens when you give Libertarians enough time. Cursed be snakes.


        All of this is why I love Vampire games set in the USA so much.
        [/COLOR]
        There is nothing 'bad faith’ about providing clarity of definitions, or requiring researched evidence to back up claims made. It may not be the point you wanted to make, but the point you were making was spurious because it didn’t provide these things.
        Last edited by Trippy; 07-25-2020, 06:05 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
          I think it’s a bit odd to blame libertarians for corporate control over politics when libertarians have almost zero power in Washington, virtually no control over institutions, and are pretty much opposed by all of the big money interests. Most of the pro-corporate policies in the USA aren’t letting by businesses get away with what they want, it’s actually funding them.
          Let's say America started as an economically right wing land that, despite many having conservative beliefs, on a legal had some very anti-authoritarian ideas (IE, It was very Yellow, especially given historical context)

          Thing is, that yellow section of an economic axis chart ( is the least sustainable quadrant (Left-Anarchists have external concerns) With little regulation, businesses will become powerful, and when business becomes more powerful than the goverment, certain business buys the govenment, and pretty soon your classical liberal goverment becomes a conservative one.

          Modern libertarians are basically people that want to go back in time with no knowledge of how their desired system came to be the thing they currently hate (Or they're just wanting to say 'I like freedoms and hate communists but I'm not a racist) of course they'd be unsuccessful in politics: Calling yourself a Libertarian is just an interesting way of declaring you have no idea how politics works. actual Nazis have more realistic goals.

          Anyway, this is a tangent, we might want to stick to WoD.
          Yep, If people don't @me, will totally do that

          But in all seriousness, playing with politics is a really, really big appeal for me in WoD games. I've got facist characters, libertarian characters, liberal characters, fuedal characters, victim characters... I've bought a slave at auction, made friends with foreign religious extremists, massacred Klan members, fought for the feminist cause but also played an insecure and abused malk who built a harem to compensate. The best you can get with DnD is allegory; WoD's "real world" mirror setting lets you fight the actual klan.

          Horrible politics makes for a great game. Political horror is, in my opinion, the best kind, and it's madness that the political horror is at times shafted by a drive towards more 'personal' horror. The world being shit makes for a greater story than you being shit. Ambition makes for better tragedies than penance.


          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

          Comment


          • Am I the only one who gets a headache from this?

            Anyway. Politics are definitely fun to include in your WoD game, just like romance and tragedy and personal horror and occasional combats, but I wouldn’t want it to be the center of an entire campaign. At least not a Werewolf campaign (Vampire, maybe, with the right group).


            The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

            Comment


            • alright, worst WoD ideas I've ever heard:

              - the umbra...I know, I know, it's where you get to do the fun stuff, but that's the thing, the umbra is where the fun's at,
              I always felt the spirit world kinda undermined the importance of the "real" world,
              and why do mages and others who can traverse the gauntlet even bother with the material world?


              -

              Comment


              • -The umbras are all far more dangerous than the real world.
                -If you mortals stay too long their matter is replaced with epherma and they can't return.
                -It's half the battle, probably less. The real world impacts the various umbras more than the umbras impact the real world. An industrial bane killed in a factory will reform , whilst shutting that factory down would deny the bane it's source of power. And with that in mind I think cleansing a factory of banes on the regular would make that factory more sustainable.


                Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  -The umbras are all far more dangerous than the real world.
                  -If you mortals stay too long their matter is replaced with epherma and they can't return.
                  -It's half the battle, probably less. The real world impacts the various umbras more than the umbras impact the real world. An industrial bane killed in a factory will reform , whilst shutting that factory down would deny the bane it's source of power. And with that in mind I think cleansing a factory of banes on the regular would make that factory more sustainable.
                  I think it’s called Disembodiment or Disconnection.


                  The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                    -The umbras are all far more dangerous than the real world.
                    -If you mortals stay too long their matter is replaced with epherma and they can't return.
                    -It's half the battle, probably less. The real world impacts the various umbras more than the umbras impact the real world. An industrial bane killed in a factory will reform , whilst shutting that factory down would deny the bane it's source of power. And with that in mind I think cleansing a factory of banes on the regular would make that factory more sustainable.
                    I think that’s why the avatar storm happened because players where spending to much time having adventures in the umbra and not in the boring “real” world. Who would of thought that people would rather have epic spirt adventures in fantasy lands and get into starship fights with the Sith! Nependi and meet Umbra gods.
                    then I don’t know, do some drugs so you shoot really good and do not cause paradox. then murder some dude. Or win a sharp shooting tournament to pay rent on your sanctum.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

                      I think that’s why the avatar storm happened because players where spending to much time having adventures in the umbra and not in the boring “real” world. Who would of thought that people would rather have epic spirt adventures in fantasy lands and get into starship fights with the Sith! Nependi and meet Umbra gods.
                      then I don’t know, do some drugs so you shoot really good and do not cause paradox. then murder some dude. Or win a sharp shooting tournament to pay rent on your sanctum.
                      I like both styles of play. The one M20 campaign I played in we spent most of our time on Earth but we also ventured into the Umbra a little too (the Avatar Storm was mostly but not entirely gone by the time our characters started playing).


                      The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

                        I think that’s why the avatar storm happened because players where spending to much time having adventures in the umbra and not in the boring “real” world. Who would of thought that people would rather have epic spirt adventures in fantasy lands and get into starship fights with the Sith! Nependi and meet Umbra gods.
                        then I don’t know, do some drugs so you shoot really good and do not cause paradox. then murder some dude. Or win a sharp shooting tournament to pay rent on your sanctum.
                        exactly,
                        although I didn't like the way the avatar storm was handled, I sympathized with the intent

                        I just wish they'd put as much effort at making the "real" world interesting as they did for the umbra


                        -

                        Comment


                        • A more interesting and useful (imo) version of a concept like the Umbra was the mirror dimension in Marvel's Doctor Strange film - a place where magicians could duel without endangering the public or exposing themselves to unwanted attention.

                          Comment


                          • imo that would be a strong touchstone for describing and using the Penumbra as seen through an Astral/Higher lense.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                              A more interesting and useful (imo) version of a concept like the Umbra was the mirror dimension in Marvel's Doctor Strange film - a place where magicians could duel without endangering the public or exposing themselves to unwanted attention.
                              We're back to the "worst wod idea you've ever heard" topic then?

                              The world but empty< A rich spiritual world of embodied concepts.


                              Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                                A more interesting and useful (imo) version of a concept like the Umbra was the mirror dimension in Marvel's Doctor Strange film - a place where magicians could duel without endangering the public or exposing themselves to unwanted attention.
                                I'd actually prefer if they had to fight in the real world with the risk of being exposed or endangering the public, and deal with the consequences,
                                kinda like the mages in Fate/Zero or Kara no Kyoukai


                                -

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X