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Worst WoD idea you’ve ever heard?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Penelope View Post
    MyWifeIsScary interesting. In paragraph 2 you make a really good argument, but in my own head canon I prefer a world where gender is important to vampires (a world where Kindred of different genders are equal but still different, if that makes sense). Also, I’m pretty sure the part about Ilyes crushing on Troile (although Troile’s gender is unclear) is part of canon.

    Sergeant Brother what’s your head canon for the Daughters of Cacophony?
    I think that gender should still matter to vampires, though less than for humans.

    Anyway, I’ll quote myself on the Daughters of Cacophony:

    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
    Not long after V:tM Revised came out, when they said that the Daughters of Cacophony purged all of their male members, in inspired me to write a backstory for the DoC that I still use as a part of my own personal canon. I can't find it, I might have left it on an old computer. I'll sum it up though.

    The Daughters of Cacophony were created long ago by a Venture Methuselah, who I will refer to only as Cacophonus. Cacophonus loved feminine beauty and voices and he could only feed from women with great singing ability. In time he embraced many of the most artful of his herd, group of female vampires to serve and sing for him. With time, as Cacophonus and his childer became more politically active, they embraced childer of their own, using the same standards that their master would desire - women with amazing singing ability. Cacophonus bestowed the Disciplines of Presence and Fortitude to his childer, but instead of developing Dominate, they gained a Discipline based on singing and using their voices.

    Eventually Cacophonus went into Torpor and through the vampiric generations, the Daughters of Cacophony took on a life of their own, embracing mortals based on their own desires rather than the plans of Cacophonus, mortals who displayed a love of music and singing, including men. Many of the ancients of the Bloodline were inactive or torporous as well, allowing the central authority of the Bloodline to fade away.

    Recently, in the modern era, Cacophonus awoke from his long torpor and called to his childer to attend to him. He gave the command for the males of the Bloodline be slain and for the rest of the Bloodline to be brought under his authority.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
      Keeping to eariler editions, I'd say Vampire Himmler.
      Edit:
      The M20 rebranding of every tradition was daft. DAV20's Ahrimanes, while I don't dislike the idea, was written like a parody. Gender exclusionary bloodlines don't really make sense after a few generations.
      Yeah, Himmler was ... one of the lowest points of a book that had more than a few of them. (Really, that whole book was an unfortunate waste, as Berlin right after the Wall fell was a really great place to set a Vampire game for so many reasons.)

      I think the gender-exclusion of the original Ahrimanes made a degree of sense, seeing as how you had to be ritually initiated into them rather than embraced. (Though I kind of prefer their revised version, where they are just a small-b bloodline within the Gangrel.) The DA version felt like someone was trying to jump through a roller coaster worth of hoops just to justify a name that really need nothing more explanation than that the Sabbat Gangrel who founded them heard about the Persian god and decided it sounded "k3wl!"

      The only gender exclusive vampire group I use in my games is the Daughters of Cacophony, who are of totally unknown origins, have only relatively recently appeared, and are considered to be potential harbingers of Gehenna. For whatever reason, trying to embrace someone with their vitae just doesn't work on anyone with a Y chromosome, with efforts to do so creating Caitiff or corpses.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #18
        My only DoC theory to justify it is that they hear eachother's "song", and can locate eachother through that, and someone very old really, really does not like to hear male voices in the song...


        Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MalkSam View Post
          But the crown has to go to Cherubim, from one of the late 90s VtM books (Montreal by Night).
          Damn it, I'd successfully blocked all memory of that from my mind.

          This also dredged up my repressed memories of the opening fiction from the Baali clan book,
          with a little boy vampire seducing a priest in excessive detail, to the point where it was written like erotica.


          (Both of these books share an author in common, but I've no idea if he wrote those parts or not.)


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #20
            Chances are that was the case... so far as I'm aware there aren't that many examples in VtM books of pedophilia appearing to be sweatily fetishized rather than just used as a depiction of horror (e.g., the "marriage" between Velya the Vivisectionist and Elaine Cassidy). It's disturbing enough to think of one writer taking that approach, let alone more...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              My only DoC theory to justify it is that they hear eachother's "song", and can locate eachother through that, and someone very old really, really does not like to hear male voices in the song...
              That sounds pretty cool. I could combine that with my idea.

              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

              Damn it, I'd successfully blocked all memory of that from my mind.

              This also dredged up my repressed memories of the opening fiction from the Baali clan book,
              with a little boy vampire seducing a priest in excessive detail, to the point where it was written like erotica.


              (Both of these books share an author in common, but I've no idea if he wrote those parts or not.)
              I remember that part from the Baali Clan Book. It seemed not so bizarre and edgy, but random. It didn't seem to be in keeping with the rest of the themes of the book.

              Anyway, as for some of the worst WoD ideas, I have to say that Week of Nightmares was one of the worst for me. I liked Time of Thin Blood otherwise, but the entire thing with spirit nukes and giant mirror satellites seemed moire like something from Rifts than V:tM.

              World of Darkness: Gypsies was a pretty bad idea too, but at least it could be ignored and it didn't have that much impact on the rest of the WoD. A lot of the ethnic splats have problems, nothing as bad WoD:G, but that could at least be tossed out and the other splats have and will remain for quite some time.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
                I remember that part from the Baali Clan Book. It seemed not so bizarre and edgy, but random. It didn't seem to be in keeping with the rest of the themes of the book.
                Yeah. It felt like one of those instances where a Black Dog labled book was trying to be "edgy" in the most juvenile and shock-for-shock's-sake way possible. (I honestly feel that Charnal Houses of Europe was the only truly "adult" book from that entire imprint.)


                World of Darkness: Gypsies was a pretty bad idea too, but at least it could be ignored and it didn't have that much impact on the rest of the WoD. A lot of the ethnic splats have problems, nothing as bad WoD:G, but that could at least be tossed out and the other splats have and will remain for quite some time.
                I can understand the reasoning behind that book - them being so heavily tied to the classic Gothic horror genre - but rather than a book that showed you what this real ethnic group and their culture is really like, what sort of issues and challenges they have faced, and how various aspects of the WoD may fit into that in an accurate and hopefully respectful way, we got someone's first draft of a bad fantasy novel mixed with the exact opposite of "accurate and respectful."
                (In perfect hindsight, I would have prefered to have had the subject addressed in a Nomad book for Vampire, Werewolf's Kinfolk, some sort of Mage book about various pop culture superstitions and Mythic Threads, Mediums, Enchanted, and sidebars in the Ravnos, Silent Strider, Dreamspeaker, and Sorcerer books. Basically, "this who these people are, these are some of their beliefs, and this is how it ties into the subject of this book." But they are still normal folks like everyone else.)


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Sergeant Brother, MyWifeIsScary both of those ideas DoC ideas are really cool.

                  No One of Consequence there is also a REALLY gross and unnecessary pic in Clanbook Baali of insects crawling out of a certain place (not gonna be more explicit than that, anyone who’s read the book knows what I’m talking about) that I literally tore out of my copy I got on Amazon. I didn’t plan it or anything, it was just like an instinctive response.


                  “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

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                  • #24
                    I didn't mind Clanbook Baali. I wouldn't say that part is high art but you're reading a Black dog book. I kinda enjoyed Freak legion having a lot of "vulgarity".


                    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                    • #25
                      I liked the hick fomori in Freak Legion with the quote from Copperhead Road.


                      “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Sorry. Not hicks. Mountain people. I actually love the old mountain ballads.

                        If ever I return pretty Peggy-O
                        If ever I return pretty Peggy-O
                        If ever I return
                        All your cities I will burn
                        Destroying all the maidens in the areo...


                        “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                          Yeah. It felt like one of those instances where a Black Dog labled book was trying to be "edgy" in the most juvenile and shock-for-shock's-sake way possible. (I honestly feel that Charnal Houses of Europe was the only truly "adult" book from that entire imprint.)




                          I can understand the reasoning behind that book - them being so heavily tied to the classic Gothic horror genre - but rather than a book that showed you what this real ethnic group and their culture is really like, what sort of issues and challenges they have faced, and how various aspects of the WoD may fit into that in an accurate and hopefully respectful way, we got someone's first draft of a bad fantasy novel mixed with the exact opposite of "accurate and respectful."
                          (In perfect hindsight, I would have prefered to have had the subject addressed in a Nomad book for Vampire, Werewolf's Kinfolk, some sort of Mage book about various pop culture superstitions and Mythic Threads, Mediums, Enchanted, and sidebars in the Ravnos, Silent Strider, Dreamspeaker, and Sorcerer books. Basically, "this who these people are, these are some of their beliefs, and this is how it ties into the subject of this book." But they are still normal folks like everyone else.)
                          I agree with your hindsight.


                          “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I have read both, the Baali clanbook and Montreal by Night, beyond this horrible character (Cherubin) and some others excessively sexualized, I consider this one of the best By night written. The plots, the themes and the packs are well organized, putting above the concept of path and pack than the clans. It was written by canadian authors and the history and culture chapters are rich and well designed, not only by passing tourists. In some aspects, I consider Mexico by Night (the other Sabbat by Night) a better book, but not in accuracy and knowledge of the setting, Mexico was written by USA authors and that is evident in the poor translation of some terms. (El serpiente dorado, los ángeles suciedad, etc).

                            The Baali clanbook was strange, nasty and not very interesting, comparing to the other Dark Ages Clanbooks, the Salubri, the Cappadocian and the Libellus Sanguinis. But achieved one thing that any other book have done before, depict some Baali beyond the stereotype of evil moustache villains, I even enjoyed the concept of guardians of the reality, trying to feed the demons beyond to satiate them and that they would not destroyed the world. Some characters, more akin to Tremere plotters, like Azaneal or Annazir are even interesting. I have not read Gypsies but his reputation as the worst supplement is consistent everywhere. I also consider Chaos factor an auto-parody, given the low quality of the book.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                              2.That Void Engineer who conveniently (and literally) retnuked nuked the entirety of WTO's line for whatever reason. (Also I thought Void Engineers only specialize in the Middle-Umbra, why and HOW the fuck did he get in the underworld. Even then how the hell did he get so close to Oblivion without being hounded by thousands of Spectres at once?)


                              5.Making VTM abrahamic, then making all the splats non-abrahamic based so VTM is the odd one out (until the DTF nonsense comes about)


                              7.Never making a Dark Kingdom based around the Middle-East for WTO
                              So, I never read the book where it happened, but the idea of nuking the umbra like you're in Doctor Strangelove is realy appealing. The problem is the scope of the incident: too big, too long.
                              VTM uses abrahamic myth as myth, not fact. You mostly play europeans, so it makes sense to use. I'd say it's more reliant on lot of western occult tradition (Hermeticism, Gnosticism; There's a single true cosmology and most mainstream religions only have a partial truth of it)
                              I think north africa and the middle east would work fine sharing a dark kingdom with europe. They have a lot in common. But I don't know all that much about wraith so..


                              per modern line that I've read
                              V20- Diamonion costs humanity to use if you're not on Evil Revelations. Oh, and the Enchanting voice merit.
                              W20- There's a theurge power which lets you attack people from the umbra.
                              M20- Editing, oh, wait, in universe? Everyone gets a name change. Mages aren't that progressive.
                              DAV20- Just a lot of bad history. (and I kinda don't like that a lot of powers have a 'you can fluff it your way' shtick to it)
                              V5- Of the long list of things, I think the worst is the discipline change. It's bad from a continuity perspective, it's bad from a sociological perspective, it's bad from a metaphysical perspective, it's bad from a gameplay perspective.

                              Of course, the dumbest idea was to have players roll to hit, then have an optional defensive roll, then roll for damage, then roll for soak.
                              Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 06-26-2020, 05:35 PM.


                              Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                                No One of Consequence there is also a REALLY gross and unnecessary pic in Clanbook Baali of insects crawling out of a certain place (not gonna be more explicit than that, anyone who’s read the book knows what I’m talking about) that I literally tore out of my copy I got on Amazon. I didn’t plan it or anything, it was just like an instinctive response.
                                Ugh, that was another of those things I'd successfully made myself forget about.


                                Less repulsive but still dumb: vampire snakes in Berlin by Night. I feel lucky that Rage Across the Amazon didn't have vampire fish in it.


                                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                                Comment

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