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Would you like it if the other WOD games incorporated the “Touchstone” mechanic?

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  • Would you like it if the other WOD games incorporated the “Touchstone” mechanic?

    I think Wraith already has something like it with your fetters.
    .
    Changling could have Both Mortal and Fae touchstones like The forsaken.

  • #2
    Kinda depends what that means.

    Are we talking everyone gets the V5 version? If so count me out.

    Are we talking the CofD general concept that's basically different (and not even actually present) in every game-line to help them focus on their themes? Sure, if you can make it work without the CofD's common use of Humanity-like mechanics in the rest of the games. Touchstones need mechanics to hook into that are coherent for the story and fun for the game.

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    • #3
      It would be counter to the themes of mage and changeling, while it wouldn't be very interesting for werewolf.


      Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
      There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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      • #4
        I can see them being neat and useful ways to help add bonuses to characters trying to retain a sense of stability, how to mechanically work them is the question though, to me at least.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
          It would be counter to the themes of mage and changeling, while it wouldn't be very interesting for werewolf.
          It depends a lot on what you're doing with them.

          If we're using the general idea from CofD, Touchstones are simply things that keep your character rooted in a particular mindset (generally one they want to be in) and the cost of having to maintain that connection in some fashion or negative consequences for losing them. They don't have to be specifically about protecting your sense of humanity.

          Thematically, they can work for most WoD games (even if the struggle on the mechanical side is still very present) because most WoD PCs feel the draw of two or more worlds that they have to balance. Touchstones would help give them an anchor point in those worlds to keep hold of when one is demanding more of their attention than others.

          Ascension has always treated mages as being at risk of detachment from "normal" life because of their fantastic powers and the urge to seclude themselves away where they can use their power without worrying about Sleeper eyes and Consensus. This is one of the oldest forms of hubris in mage society, because in a subjective reality, ignoring the normal world means ceding power in that world to govern how reality works; it's how the Order of Reason/Technocracy became so power... the other mages were ignoring the common folk. The Traditions and Crafts of the modern nights are much greater advocates of having bonds to Sleepers or Sleeper organizations to keep mages focused on important issues.

          Changelings, likewise, feel the constant draw between their mortal lives and the Dreaming. Having specific story elements that emotionally resonate with them in each is highly thematic for them.

          Deviant's Touchstone setup could be very interesting for Apocalypse (rather than using Forsaken's): Deviants have Touchstones based on specific stuff they're actively trying to destroy, and specific stuff they're actively trying to protect. This can highlight the duality of the Garou as violent murder-blenders and Gaia's protectors on a more personal scale. It wouldn't just be, "Combat the Wyrm," but, "what enemies are you willing to risk Renown, Rank, pack unity, and your long term safety to finish off once and for all?" and what does it say if one of them isn't explicitly a Wyrm creature?

          There's lots of conceptual good stuff there.

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          • #6
            I feel there's a lot of fun to be had with the 'reality is my enemy' of mage and changeling that kinda puts you in the deep end. I love the deep end. But I also liked the 'morality is chosen, not ordained' of vampire that wasn't present with v5. Deep end vampires are also very fun...

            Tying yourself down, mechanically, is useful for novice rollplayers. But i think it's a crutch for players who know what they are doing. Break those chains!


            Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
            There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              I feel there's a lot of fun to be had with the 'reality is my enemy' of mage and changeling that kinda puts you in the deep end. I love the deep end. But I also liked the 'morality is chosen, not ordained' of vampire that wasn't present with v5. Deep end vampires are also very fun...
              Again, if we're talking about CofD over V5, Touchstones don't stop you from being in the deep end, or having morality being chosen rather than ordained.

              Tying yourself down, mechanically, is useful for novice rollplayers. But i think it's a crutch for players who know what they are doing. Break those chains!
              Touchstones are, ideally, something that creates interesting choices by being a mechanic with a mix of positive and negative consequences.

              Also the "just a crutch," thing is pretty tired. If mechanics that enforce themes and create mechanical tensions were just a crutch, all of us long time RPers would be using 1 page systems or going freeform.

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              • #8
                Honestly no. I have had a bad enough experience with V5 so no thanks please do not fuck it more then needed.


                As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Koronus View Post
                  Honestly no. I have had a bad enough experience with V5 so no thanks please do not fuck it more then needed.
                  Why didn’t you like V5?

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                  • #10
                    Konradleijon If you do not want to read through the whole thread where the topic whas discussed in all detail http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...on-touchstones
                    TLDR: They are forced on you and made that you want to kill them ASAP because it would hurt less then keep them.


                    As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                    First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                    Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

                      Why didn’t you like V5?
                      He probably read the book or played it without adequate house rules or something.


                      Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                      There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                      • #12
                        I think Touchstones are a great idea.


                        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                        • #13
                          The only place "Touchstones" (AKA Fetters for this line) made sense in was in Wraith where it was interesting and versatile. Fetters (what VTR and VTM ripped to assort as "Touchstones") were much, much more better in its home origin. Fetters could be a place, certain area, object, or person/animal and they were graded up to 5- higher being how "attached" your character was to the Fetter. Without Fetters you couldn't stay in the Shadowlands (ghostly reflection of the world that overlaps the living one) for long and be sent back to the Low Umbra.

                          Fetters were interesting and strategic because you didn't want your rivals or just plain enemies knowing of them, a Fetter that gets destroyed (maybe using Embody or Outrage, or just possessing a person or animal to then go destroy it) sends you into an Harrowing. Some Wraiths however have a better advantage than others, some could only have Fetters that are merely specific areas and are harder to eliminate (say the Fetter could be only a specific road that you used to drag race at or the general location of where you used to sell drugs at). The worse is when someone very experienced in Lifeweb begins to extort you after they've discovered your Fetter or if due to just the mundanity of chaotic life something just goes wrong with your Fetter in general (say your girlfriend from when you were still alive gets in a bad car accident or the mall that was your Fetter had a huge fire); those situations can bring up very interesting plot hooks in a particular session at any moment.

                          This all works when we understand Wraith is a game about being a.. well.. Wraith. Its a game that explores the interesting intrigue, horror, and tales of being a ghost being stuck with unresolvedness. Now Touchstones/Fetters in other games? No, just no.

                          The fact that this concept was so hamfisted into VTM in the first place makes absolutely no sense since its a game where you play as immortal entities that increasing become less and less human throughout the ages. Your telling me that a Vampire that will outlive it's Touchstone (that always will be some random human) over and over again MUST always have a Touchstone? Shouldn't they already adapted to a point where they don't have such bothersome inflictions anymore? Touchstones are only something I'd see Toreador having since they are obsessed with human relations and humanity in general, but now every Vampire must have this damned mechanic? Recluse Tzimisce, nomadic Gangrel, or sewer dwelling subterfuge based Noseferatu? Even the thought of putting them in other games sounds like a disaster.
                          Last edited by Shakanaka; 08-09-2020, 09:27 AM.


                          Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                            I think Touchstones are a great idea.
                            I think they would be as great as incorporating Humanity as a stat to track on non Vampire Games.
                            For those that do not get it, in HH2 it whas said you should keep track of your humanity just to see how good of a human you are but unless you get ghouled or the embrace it has no effect despite giving metaknowledge what a cold blooded bastard your character is.


                            As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                            First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                            Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Koronus View Post

                              I think they would be as great as incorporating Humanity as a stat to track on non Vampire Games.
                              For those that do not get it, in HH2 it whas said you should keep track of your humanity just to see how good of a human you are but unless you get ghouled or the embrace it has no effect despite giving metaknowledge what a cold blooded bastard your character is.
                              True. I think Touchstones would defo work for Werewolf or Changeling or even Mage (Wraith already has Fetters).


                              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

                              Comment

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