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War between Vampires and Werewolves

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  • War between Vampires and Werewolves


    Have you ever used a war between Vamps and Garou in your chronicles?

    Im intending to, so Im looking for ideas. What can spark such a conflict?

    By the way, I checked Under a Blood Red Moon, so Im looking for something different.

  • #2
    Vampire embraces a kinfolk or otherwise do something that threatens a caren.

    Werewolves decide that any vampire who smells of wyrm gets the claws. Vampires have no idea what that means so they just assume it's open season on them.


    • #3
      So, a vampire embracing a kinfolk would be enough to call open season on them?


      • #4
        It certainly would be for some septs. At least killing *that one leech in particular* which would then open the door for both sides to keep escalating until an uneasy and hateful peace bacame war.
        Last edited by Up-to-Eleven; 10-01-2020, 03:06 PM.


        • #5
          In general, werewolves leave the cities to the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, who are much more prone to accept arrangements with a city's vampires to keep the peace. (Because they are dealing with other enemies that are evaluated as being more dangerous than the vampires.) Presumably they have some lines they won't allow to be crossed, but will likely try diplomacy first to restore the status quo. The other tribes are much more likely to kill vampires, but they also are based in areas where vampires don't live (precisely because those werewolves will actively hunt and kill them). While a few of those tribe members may dwell in urban septs 1) they won't have much political pull there, and 2) are precisely those members most likely dissenting from their standard tribal views and be more like the Urrah. The rural/wilderness Garou are likely only to get involved in a war when the urban septs request help because they can't handle things and need reinforcements.

          As a result, I wouldn't think about the tribes other Glass Walkers or Bone Gnawers. They're hostile, but typically won't be in situations where they start hostilities in an urban environment.

          So it's mainly about determining what the red lines are for the Urrah septs. At what point do they determine the vampires are intruding too much on them that they need to fight (and divert their attention from their other enemies).

          I think embracing one kinfolk might not be it. Sure the Urrah might destroy the vampire who did it, any other vampire who tries to protect them, and the kinfolk. But that is not the same thing as a war. Although there exists at least the possibility it could escalate into one. It really depends who the destroyed vampire was. Some Anarch or Neonate? Camarilla won't retaliate. One of the Primogen or another elder who had a lot of sway? Probably.

          Any threat to the caern which can be resolved by going to war with the vampires would certainly qualify. A mass attack by vampires on another precious resource - the Glass Walkers' influence in the city, whole families of kinfolk, something that inadvertently ends up creating problems in the spirit world (urban development destroys a Glen in a park; or creation of a new Blight or Hellhole). Something that inadvertently interferes with a tribal, sept, or pack protectorate. Something that causes the caern totem itself to inform the sept it wants the vampires destroyed, culled, or weakened.

          The easiest hook is that an urban caern is threatened, or the caern totem becomes concerned because somehow the actions of vampires are directly threatening its spiritual resonance and it calls upon the sept to deal with it. Then if the war spirals out of control, and the Urrah need help, they can call for a Concolation of septs and request aid, and then the other septs agree to help out. At that point, you have something similar in scale to UBRM.

          Alternatively, there is no initial caern in the city. There aren't many Garou there. But some werewolf finds a place where a caern can be created or reawakened, and the Garou do so. A new caern exists and werewolves begin to enter the city to support and defend it. And in doing so start "clearing out" areas around it so it'll be safe. Vampires don't understand why a portion of the city is now dangerous and werewolves are swarming in. So they strike back, thinking their territory is being undermined and it is the Garou who are starting trouble. For example, maybe underneath prime vampire hunting ground (nightclubs and such) is what was once a caern of fellowship or joy or something else that resonates with nightlife (explaining what that area become a prime spot for entertainment). But the Garou don't understand the vampires use this space to feed. So when they attempt to gain control of it (they start with just one bar/club where the caern heart is at; but then proceed to clear what they intend to be the bawn - the entire neighborhood), they inadvertently start a war. So both sides now have major things at stake for them. Garou are defending a caern, and vampires are defending a major feeding ground for the entire city.


          • #6
            I can imagine the "somebody embraced a Kinfolk" idea working really well if the Kinfolk in question was being eyed by a pack or sept leader as a possible mate. That's basically the story of Troy.


            • #7
              A Pack of city Garou fucks up and gets the Stone of scorn. In order to get out from under it they go on a kindred killing spree. If they fail well they die and have purged their shame. IF they succeed in killing enough Vampires well they get out of their hole. Honestly the Masquerade/Silence of Blood is really a big advantage here most of the time other things just have better shit to do. KIndred really just just need to do something that puts then higher on the list and its go time.

              OR even not, as my suggestion might sound


              • #8
                imo, the best way to use garou vs kindred war, is to have it happen for no particular reason

                there doesn't need to be a reason for Garou to rise up,
                one day, a pack of garou get up on the wrong foot and decide to raise hell in vampire held domain,
                the vampires, half-confused, are faced with a dilemma, choosing between trying to survive the onslaught or flee the city
                Last edited by Pleiades; 10-03-2020, 06:08 AM.



                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                  imo, the best way to use garou vs kindred war, is to have it happen for no particular reason

                  there doesn't need to be a reason for Garou to rise up,
                  one day, a pack of garou get up on the wrong foot and decide to raise hell in vampire held domain,
                  the vampires, half-confused, are faced with a dilemma, choosing between trying to survive the onslaught or flee the city
                  I like this. The war starts, as far as the players can tell, with a blitzkrieg, and the petty reason that kicked it all off only comes to light after devastating losses on both sides, if ever.


                  • #10
                    Prince makes some moves to acquire or bring in [name of Pentex subsidiary] into the city. Werewolves attack subsidiary. Misunderstandings occur, chaos ensues, war breaks out.

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                    • #11
                      The Garou saw omens of prophecy and came to destroy.
                      High up vampires are infernalists and are directing the conflict to destroy a caern or sacred place to appease their demonic masters.
                      A vampire wants to own a caern for... some reason.
                      A werewolf needs to destroy a particular vampire to appease his ancestors and things blow up from there.
                      The city and it's elders have an alliance with Ronin/BSD and a werewolf war soon escalates with vampire involvement.
                      The werewolves kill a much loved elder who's actions were feeding a big fucking bane and his honourable childer and friends seek vengance.
                      The reverse: vampires make sport of a beloved elder and are out for vengence.

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                      • #12
                        Thank you, people. This has been extremely useful.