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  • #76
    Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

    You mean the show that shows a group fighting for equal rights as evil and wanting to take away peoples bending. Theirs a reason people argue rather season ones villan is meant to be facism or communism.

    And you can do socially concius horror see Jordan Peeles work
    I dunno, nationalists with a persecution complex and victimization of perceived entitled minorities aren't actually THAT bad of a topic to cover in a 1930s-esque setting.

    I actually think they were drawing from both Nazis and Stalinist communists.

    Which may not be the best groups to combine but hardly the only story to do so.

    Edit:

    Tolkien talked about the difference between metaphor and applicability which he felt was important when discussing SERIOUS literature. A metaphor can be easily tripped up because if you think they're talking about WW2 with orcs or Sauron then you will confuse readers because things will probably not be 1:1. APPLICABILITY means that you can use fantasy to talk about something without making a perfect parallel.

    He said that if The Lord of the Rings was metaphorical for his wartime experiences then Saruman would have won.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 06:47 PM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

    Forum Terms of Use
    the Contact Us link.

    Comment


    • #77
      And the last few pages of posts shows exactly why it is more important to focus on a vampire story in a vampire series, rather than being tempted to use vampire themes to tell a completely different story.

      Vampires as a metaphor for "X" isn't a vampire story, its a PSA with fangs. This gets compounded when those who are making the project are not fans of the source material, you get things like M. Night Shyamalan's Avater: The Last Airbender where no one noticed that the characters names were being spoken incorrectly.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        I dunno, nationalists with a persecution complex and victimization of perceived entitled minorities aren't actually THAT bad of a topic to cover in a 1930s-esque setting.

        I actually think they were drawing from both Nazis and Stalinist communists.

        Which may not be the best groups to combine but hardly the only story to do so.
        I think it's a good time for a tiny bit of spam.

        Somebody did an excelent study on the matter of Korra's politics. I'm going to point towards the 2nd video 'cuz the first one I think was kinda obvious, but I encourage to see the whole serie of four videos

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alQ...KayAndSkittles

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Thoth View Post
          And the last few pages of posts shows exactly why it is more important to focus on a vampire story in a vampire series, rather than being tempted to use vampire themes to tell a completely different story.

          Vampires as a metaphor for "X" isn't a vampire story, its a PSA with fangs. This gets compounded when those who are making the project are not fans of the source material, you get things like M. Night Shyamalan's Avater: The Last Airbender where no one noticed that the characters names were being spoken incorrectly.
          Yeah, I completely disagree and think if you miss the social satire elements of it then you're not getting the full V:TM experience.

          Gothic Punk

          Gothic: It is a setting with vampires, tragic romanticism, and nihilistic cynicism plus, you know, actual Goths.

          Punk: A setting where the vampires are divided between the rich (Camairlla) and poor (Anarchs) with systemic issues on full display as well as a sense of directionless anger.

          I literally wrote an essay about why Vampire: The Masquerade is awesome because it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

          http://unitedfederationofcharles.blo...asquerade.html

          THE SOCIAL SATIRE OF VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE

          It's risky to interpret any fiction through a political lens nowadays, even though that is one of the foundations of literary criticism. Virtually everyone is ready and willing to say that Pokemon is about dog-fighting or class warfare. Other people object to any sort of interpretation that suggests a work is more than entertainment.

          Examples: Star Wars is a pro-democracy, anti-fascist work even if these shouldn't be particularly controversial opinions. Storm as leader of the X-men makes a political statement just by being a black woman and immigrant. Whether any of this actually means anything to the reader is up to them. One thing is certain, though, and that's the World of Darkness by White Wolf game is political and Vampire: The Masquerade is probably the one I feel is the most interesting to interpret through a socio-political lens.

          If you're wondering how I'm qualified to talk about any of this crap, I should clarify that I'm a 25+ year fan of Vampire: The Masquerade dating back to the distant year of 1994 (when I was fourteen) and I'm also a Master of Literature. This is also meant to be a mostly fun essay rather than something that will try to blow you away with its conclusions. Take it for what its worth.

          For those unfamiliar with Vampire: The Masquerade, it is a tabletop roleplaying game that has spawned comic books, one television series, multiple video games, and several tabletop roleplaying game spin-offs. The premise is that the Biblical Caine was real, God cursed him 13,000 years ago, and he spread his curse to 13 different bloodlines that each represented a stereotypical depiction of a fictional vampire.

          In the Modern Era, the players each created a newly "Embraced" vampire that is shoved into a complicated feudal heirarchy. They must survive the backstabbing politics of vampire society, hunters, rival young vampires ("Neonates"), the religious extremists Sabbat, and the looming apocalypse brought on by the 13 "Antedilivuans."

          No stranger to politics in his work, Vampire: The Masquerade was created by Mark Rein Hagen. The game was conceived in the counter-culture district of Atlanta, Georgia in the Bible Belt by Goths for Goths. It was inspired by Mark driving through the already economically devastated city of Gary, Indiana on his way to Milwaukee. The collapse of the American steel industry had left the once-prosperous city in ruins and it was easy to imagine all manner of monsters living in the burnt-out factories as well as abandoned homes.

          Mark Rein Hagen was also inspired by the already-popular in RPGs and literary circles concept of cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is something I've gone into over here but the simple version is: it's near-future fiction where technology is used to oppress society more than liberate it. Mark envisioned the game as "Gothic Punk" with the same tropes of super-rich masters of the Earth oppressing the poor and downtrodden but instead of using technology, they used supernatural abilities.

          The vampire is a very good metaphor for a number of things but in this case it lends itself easily to a criticism of unlimited looter capitalism. The parasitic immortal rich that feed by literally taking the lifeblood of those beneath them. This was embodied by each city being ruled by a "Prince" who wielded the authority of the "Camarilla." The Camarilla controlled the (un)life and resources of all vampires that are born into its circle while distributing them unequally to the benefit of its senior members. They controlled the vampire police ("The Sheriff") and enforced draconian laws to keep its members in line.

          At least in the original gameline from 1st Edition to the end of 2nd Edition, player characters were expected to be oppressed despite being vampires themselves. The Camarilla resents new vampires as society is overcrowded, resources concentrated in the hands of a powerful few, and every new member is potential competition. Your only options are toadying fidelity to one of the High Clans (Toreador, Ventrue, Tremere) or attempting to overthrow the establishment to forge something better ("The Anarchs" as embodied by the Brujah and Caitiff).

          Early supplements like Chicago by Night (1st Edition) made the connection between revolutionary movements and social justice. The Anarchs compromised of 1930s trade unionists, Civil Rights leaders, Black Panthers, and 80s punks. They were a disorganized bunch but all of them were recognizably linked to those fighting against authority. It is no coincidence that V:TM contained more black, gay, and other minority NPCs than virtually all other tabletop roleplaying games of the time combined.

          It should be noted that as a tabletop roleplaying game that these themes weren't necessarily things Storytellers and players had to explore. Games could follow the above premise with the Anarchs as the heroes (or at least lesser evil) or they could follow more personal stories of struggle against the Beast. They could also be rollicking urban fantasy adventures where the PCs fought werewolves ala Underworld. For the purposes of this essay, though, I'm going to focus on the class and hierarchy elements of the setting.

          Indeed, the game was not wholly pro-revolutionary and the Anarchs were not considered to be heroic rebels against the Camarilla (at least not completely). While the majority of sympathetic NPCs in early supplements like Erichtho, Maldavis, Jeremy MacNeil, and Salvador were Anarchs--the very first Anarch we encountered in any supplement was the hypocritical Juggler. Juggler rebels for the sake of rebellion against the toothless Prince Modius and is depicted as every bit as awful in his own way.

          Vampire: The Masquerade proved to be a setting suspicious of all organized movements with the Anarchs no different. The places where the Anarchs overthrew their Elders like the California Free States or Czarist Russia quickly became every bit as bad (or worse) than the Elders they replaced. Third Edition ("Revised") even had the view of the Camarilla as a bulwark against the more (at least overtly) heinous Sabbat and Independent Clans.

          The Signature Characters also moved from being Neonates like Evelyn or Damien to powerful Elders like Victoria Ash and Lucita. Ironically, Vampire: The Dark Ages established that the Sabbat was nothing more than a Anarch movement gone horribly wrong and that Elders like Lucita were often rebelling against their own controlling sires or grandsires. It was layers of oppression all the way up to the Antediluvians and perhaps beyond.

          While predating the War on Terror, the Sabbat were an interesting critique on religious extremism. Claiming to be fighting for the freedom of all Kindred, they were an army that claimed authority from the worship of Caine and his betrayal by the Antediluvians. Members were Embraced, indoctrinated into their religion, and then sent as suicide soldiers against the Camarilla. By coincidence or design, many of their activities bore resemblance to real life terrorist organizations or cults. Their members were the most oppressed and held in the littlest regard while continually told they were the only free and that the only way to survive was to destroy the sect's enemies.

          The Independent Clans proved to be a somewhat mixed group of stereotypes that would largely be retconned or explained away as Western prejudices. The Assamites were a militant blood cult every bit as insane as the Sabbat (but perhaps nobler), the Followers of Set being a Satanic religion venerating the Egyptian God of Storms, the Giovanni being sinister incestuous bankers plotting the end of the world, and the Ravnos being a bunch of thieving Romani. Either way, they represented an other that the Camarilla guarded against much like the Sabbat. It is no coincidence that the Anarchs became less prominent while the "worse than the Camarilla" became more detailed. This would reach its nadir when the Kuei-Jin (a lumped together collection of Indian, Chinese, Korean plus Japanese vampires) appeared to wipe out the Anarch Free States and threaten all of vampirekind with their terrifying alieness. It seemed the social satire of the poor young vampire versus the Man was over.

          Until it wasn't.

          The Assamites (now Banu Haqim) were now a diverse Muslim clan of philosophers and mystics as well as warriors now opposed to an extremist religious minority. The Followers of Set would diversify into a polytheist sect that was less overtly evil. The Giovanni would merge with their ancient ancestors and Caribbean Samedi to form a more diverse sect. The Ravnos? Well, after they were retconned as a Indian sect, they were almost wiped out. Even the Kuei-Jin became much more nuanced and interesting characters uninterested in war against the foreign devils. The books also introduced the Thin Bloods, even weaker than the average Anarch, who just wanted to hold onto their humanity but were a hated minority by birth due to religious justification.

          Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition would revive a good deal of the Anarch subtext by linking the burgeoning Occupy Wallstreet movement and a stand-in for Anonymous with the Anarchs in Anarchs Unbound. 5th Edition Vampire: The Masquerade also moved some of the changes started toward the end of Revised to the Independent clans. The Banu Haqim would join the Camarilla and the Followers of Set (now the "Ministry") would join the Anarchs.

          The Anarchs would permanently split from the Camarilla and build their own sect with its own territory. Much more focus was also given to the international world of vampires with the struggle between inequity and Elders supplemented by human governments rising up to exterminate the undead. The rich Camarilla, of course, threw the poor Anarchs under the bus. Because of course they did.

          Yeah, this isn't political at all.
          Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 08:03 PM.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Forum Terms of Use
          the Contact Us link.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Aleph View Post

            I think it's a good time for a tiny bit of spam.

            Somebody did an excelent study on the matter of Korra's politics. I'm going to point towards the 2nd video 'cuz the first one I think was kinda obvious, but I encourage to see the whole serie of four videos

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alQ...KayAndSkittles
            Yeah, I sort of trailed off and went cross-eyed when they saw Wan as Jesus not Monkey. Because when I think Jesus, I think Trickster Enlightenment heroes.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

            Forum Terms of Use
            the Contact Us link.

            Comment


            • #81
              Hello Future Me did a good analysis of the politics of Amon recently for those who are interested.

              Here

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                Yeah, I completely disagree and think if you miss the social satire elements of it then you're not getting the full V:TM experience.

                Gothic Punk

                Gothic: It is a setting with vampires, tragic romanticism, and nihilistic cynicism plus, you know, actual Goths.

                Punk: A setting where the vampires are divided between the rich (Camairlla) and poor (Anarchs) with systemic issues on full display as well as a sense of directionless anger.

                I literally wrote an essay about why Vampire: The Masquerade is awesome because it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

                http://unitedfederationofcharles.blo...asquerade.html

                THE SOCIAL SATIRE OF VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE

                It's risky to interpret any fiction through a political lens nowadays, even though that is one of the foundations of literary criticism. Virtually everyone is ready and willing to say that Pokemon is about dog-fighting or class warfare. Other people object to any sort of interpretation that suggests a work is more than entertainment.

                Examples: Star Wars is a pro-democracy, anti-fascist work even if these shouldn't be particularly controversial opinions. Storm as leader of the X-men makes a political statement just by being a black woman and immigrant. Whether any of this actually means anything to the reader is up to them. One thing is certain, though, and that's the World of Darkness by White Wolf game is political and Vampire: The Masquerade is probably the one I feel is the most interesting to interpret through a socio-political lens.

                If you're wondering how I'm qualified to talk about any of this crap, I should clarify that I'm a 25+ year fan of Vampire: The Masquerade dating back to the distant year of 1994 (when I was fourteen) and I'm also a Master of Literature. This is also meant to be a mostly fun essay rather than something that will try to blow you away with its conclusions. Take it for what its worth.

                For those unfamiliar with Vampire: The Masquerade, it is a tabletop roleplaying game that has spawned comic books, one television series, multiple video games, and several tabletop roleplaying game spin-offs. The premise is that the Biblical Caine was real, God cursed him 13,000 years ago, and he spread his curse to 13 different bloodlines that each represented a stereotypical depiction of a fictional vampire.

                In the Modern Era, the players each created a newly "Embraced" vampire that is shoved into a complicated feudal heirarchy. They must survive the backstabbing politics of vampire society, hunters, rival young vampires ("Neonates"), the religious extremists Sabbat, and the looming apocalypse brought on by the 13 "Antedilivuans."

                No stranger to politics in his work, Vampire: The Masquerade was created by Mark Rein Hagen. The game was conceived in the counter-culture district of Atlanta, Georgia in the Bible Belt by Goths for Goths. It was inspired by Mark driving through the already economically devastated city of Gary, Indiana on his way to Milwaukee. The collapse of the American steel industry had left the once-prosperous city in ruins and it was easy to imagine all manner of monsters living in the burnt-out factories as well as abandoned homes.

                Mark Rein Hagen was also inspired by the already-popular in RPGs and literary circles concept of cyberpunk. http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-is-cyberpunk.html"]Cyberpunk is something I've gone into over here [/URL]but the simple version is: it's near-future fiction where technology is used to oppress society more than liberate it. Mark envisioned the game as "Gothic Punk" with the same tropes of super-rich masters of the Earth oppressing the poor and downtrodden but instead of using technology, they used supernatural abilities.

                The vampire is a very good metaphor for a number of things but in this case it lends itself easily to a criticism of unlimited looter capitalism. The parasitic immortal rich that feed by literally taking the lifeblood of those beneath them. This was embodied by each city being ruled by a "Prince" who wielded the authority of the "Camarilla." The Camarilla controlled the (un)life and resources of all vampires that are born into its circle while distributing them unequally to the benefit of its senior members. They controlled the vampire police ("The Sheriff") and enforced draconian laws to keep its members in line.

                At least in the original gameline from 1st Edition to the end of 2nd Edition, player characters were expected to be oppressed despite being vampires themselves. The Camarilla resents new vampires as society is overcrowded, resources concentrated in the hands of a powerful few, and every new member is potential competition. Your only options are toadying fidelity to one of the High Clans (Toreador, Ventrue, Tremere) or attempting to overthrow the establishment to forge something better ("The Anarchs" as embodied by the Brujah and Caitiff).

                Early supplements like Chicago by Night (1st Edition) made the connection between revolutionary movements and social justice. The Anarchs compromised of 1930s trade unionists, Civil Rights leaders, Black Panthers, and 80s punks. They were a disorganized bunch but all of them were recognizably linked to those fighting against authority. It is no coincidence that V:TM contained more black, gay, and other minority NPCs than virtually all other tabletop roleplaying games of the time combined.

                It should be noted that as a tabletop roleplaying game that these themes weren't necessarily things Storytellers and players had to explore. Games could follow the above premise with the Anarchs as the heroes (or at least lesser evil) or they could follow more personal stories of struggle against the Beast. They could also be rollicking urban fantasy adventures where the PCs fought werewolves ala Underworld. For the purposes of this essay, though, I'm going to focus on the class and hierarchy elements of the setting.

                Indeed, the game was not wholly pro-revolutionary and the Anarchs were not considered to be heroic rebels against the Camarilla (at least not completely). While the majority of sympathetic NPCs in early supplements like Erichtho, Maldavis, Jeremy MacNeil, and Salvador were Anarchs--the very first Anarch we encountered in any supplement was the hypocritical Juggler. Juggler rebels for the sake of rebellion against the toothless Prince Modius and is depicted as every bit as awful in his own way.

                Vampire: The Masquerade proved to be a setting suspicious of all organized movements with the Anarchs no different. The places where the Anarchs overthrew their Elders like the California Free States or Czarist Russia quickly became every bit as bad (or worse) than the Elders they replaced. Third Edition ("Revised") even had the view of the Camarilla as a bulwark against the more (at least overtly) heinous Sabbat and Independent Clans.

                The Signature Characters also moved from being Neonates like Evelyn or Damien to powerful Elders like Victoria Ash and Lucita. Ironically, Vampire: The Dark Ages established that the Sabbat was nothing more than a Anarch movement gone horribly wrong and that Elders like Lucita were often rebelling against their own controlling sires or grandsires. It was layers of oppression all the way up to the Antediluvians and perhaps beyond.

                While predating the War on Terror, the Sabbat were an interesting critique on religious extremism. Claiming to be fighting for the freedom of all Kindred, they were an army that claimed authority from the worship of Caine and his betrayal by the Antediluvians. Members were Embraced, indoctrinated into their religion, and then sent as suicide soldiers against the Camarilla. By coincidence or design, many of their activities bore resemblance to real life terrorist organizations or cults. Their members were the most oppressed and held in the littlest regard while continually told they were the only free and that the only way to survive was to destroy the sect's enemies.

                The Independent Clans proved to be a somewhat mixed group of stereotypes that would largely be retconned or explained away as Western prejudices. The Assamites were a militant blood cult every bit as insane as the Sabbat (but perhaps nobler), the Followers of Set being a Satanic religion venerating the Egyptian God of Storms, the Giovanni being sinister incestuous bankers plotting the end of the world, and the Ravnos being a bunch of thieving Romani. Either way, they represented an other that the Camarilla guarded against much like the Sabbat. It is no coincidence that the Anarchs became less prominent while the "worse than the Camarilla" became more detailed. This would reach its nadir when the Kuei-Jin (a lumped together collection of Indian, Chinese, Korean plus Japanese vampires) appeared to wipe out the Anarch Free States and threaten all of vampirekind with their terrifying alieness. It seemed the social satire of the poor young vampire versus the Man was over.

                Until it wasn't.

                The Assamites (now Banu Haqim) were now a diverse Muslim clan of philosophers and mystics as well as warriors now opposed to an extremist religious minority. The Followers of Set would diversify into a polytheist sect that was less overtly evil. The Giovanni would merge with their ancient ancestors and Caribbean Samedi to form a more diverse sect. The Ravnos? Well, after they were retconned as a Indian sect, they were almost wiped out. Even the Kuei-Jin became much more nuanced and interesting characters uninterested in war against the foreign devils. The books also introduced the Thin Bloods, even weaker than the average Anarch, who just wanted to hold onto their humanity but were a hated minority by birth due to religious justification.

                Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition would revive a good deal of the Anarch subtext by linking the burgeoning Occupy Wallstreet movement and a stand-in for Anonymous with the Anarchs in Anarchs Unbound. 5th Edition Vampire: The Masquerade also moved some of the changes started toward the end of Revised to the Independent clans. The Banu Haqim would join the Camarilla and the Followers of Set (now the "Ministry") would join the Anarchs.

                The Anarchs would permanently split from the Camarilla and build their own sect with its own territory. Much more focus was also given to the international world of vampires with the struggle between inequity and Elders supplemented by human governments rising up to exterminate the undead. The rich Camarilla, of course, threw the poor Anarchs under the bus. Because of course they did.

                Yeah, this isn't political at all.
                That’s a great essay. I think you were a Lit major like me.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps
                  to form a more diverse sect.
                  Good essay, but I categorically disagree with this part. The whole notion and the OOC development of the Hecata was to destroy diversity and deliberately "streamline". Nothing about the Hecata is about diversity.


                  Jade Kingdom Warrior

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                    Good essay, but I categorically disagree with this part. The whole notion and the OOC development of the Hecata was to destroy diversity and deliberately "streamline". Nothing about the Hecata is about diversity.
                    It is a diverse umbrella Clan, as detailed in Cults of the Blood Gods, which has a diverse bunch of groups and religious beliefs in it.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                      Good essay, but I categorically disagree with this part. The whole notion and the OOC development of the Hecata was to destroy diversity and deliberately "streamline". Nothing about the Hecata is about diversity.
                      Except now there's equal South American, Africa, Middle Eastern, and SCOTTISH people to the Italian Families.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                      Forum Terms of Use
                      the Contact Us link.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Aleph View Post

                        I think it's a good time for a tiny bit of spam.

                        Somebody did an excelent study on the matter of Korra's politics. I'm going to point towards the 2nd video 'cuz the first one I think was kinda obvious, but I encourage to see the whole serie of four videos

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alQ...KayAndSkittles
                        The reason why the metaphor doesn’t work is because benders are not oppressed on the Avatar wolrd like Jews are in real life!

                        Facists target easy scapegoats not popular sports players and religious figure.s

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          If they truly aimed for diversity, they would've just made the Hecata an actual Sect akin to the Camarilla, Sabbat, Anarchs, Iconnu, TBH, etc. But no, it was entirely a stopgap to come up with a way to destroy interesting Clans altogether. I know scores of VTM fans who celebrated the fact that the Hecata seemingly, "took out bunch of" so-called """snowflake""" bloodlines. So no more Samedi. That's under the veneer of the "Hecata" (but again, it's a Clan not a Sect). And no more Nagaraja, my favorite bloodline in VTM. Again, it's under the veneer of the "Hecata".

                          The entire conception of the Hecata was a OOC-meta ungraceful consolidation.


                          Jade Kingdom Warrior

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                            If they truly aimed for diversity, they would've just made the Hecata an actual Sect akin to the Camarilla, Sabbat, Anarchs, Iconnu, TBH, etc. But no, it was entirely a stopgap to come up with a way to destroy interesting Clans altogether. I know scores of VTM fans who celebrated the fact that the Hecata seemingly, "took out bunch of" so-called """snowflake""" bloodlines. So no more Samedi. That's under the veneer of the "Hecata" (but again, it's a Clan not a Sect). And no more Nagaraja, my favorite bloodline in VTM. Again, it's under the veneer of the "Hecata".

                            The entire conception of the Hecata was a OOC-meta ungraceful consolidation.
                            This just seems like it's not about diversity at all but just disliking the direction they chose to take the Clan.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Forum Terms of Use
                            the Contact Us link.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

                              The reason why the metaphor doesn’t work is because benders are not oppressed on the Avatar wolrd like Jews are in real life!

                              Facists target easy scapegoats not popular sports players and religious figure.s
                              Not to shoot that down but, uh, the whole point is installing a government that oppresses Benders.

                              Amon takes the resentment of Benders among the Muggles and then institutes mass extermination depowering (because it's a kids show).

                              Mind you, I feel like a lot of fans assumed Amon had some truth to his views when, in fact it was self-evidently bullshit from the moment we discover that two Bender brothers and many others are homeless with few prospects while the richest men in the world were anti-Bender bigots.

                              It was always nonsensical scapegoating.

                              Also, I could list the various famous Jews of Pre-War Nazi germany but let's just start with Fritz Lang.
                              Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 10:23 PM.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                              Forum Terms of Use
                              the Contact Us link.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                                Not to shoot that down but, uh, the whole point is installing a government that oppresses Benders.

                                Amon takes the resentment of Benders among the Muggles and then institutes mass extermination depowering because it's a kids show.
                                But Jews where already oppressed before the Nazis along with Roma, Queer people, and the disabled. One dude didn’t make amtisemtism and spread it to the world. Unlike Amon that suddenly makes a hatred against benders. Also it seems to end after he was defeated. Unlike actual bigotry l

                                Thinking about it further my biggest issue with the "Equalists are supposed to be fascists" is with whom they're opposing. Benders clearly have an advantage over non-Benders. We see Bender gangs extorting mundane shop-owners, Benders comprise the entirety of the government (that no one elects the Council is true but of little relevance), and in-general Benders objectively have advantages over non-Benders. Fascists... didn't oppose any group that fits those descriptions. The Jews weren't actually in power in Germany, and obviously, it's not any more applicable to socialists.

                                Comment

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