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  • Aleph
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    I dunno, nationalists with a persecution complex and victimization of perceived entitled minorities aren't actually THAT bad of a topic to cover in a 1930s-esque setting.

    I actually think they were drawing from both Nazis and Stalinist communists.

    Which may not be the best groups to combine but hardly the only story to do so.
    I think it's a good time for a tiny bit of spam.

    Somebody did an excelent study on the matter of Korra's politics. I'm going to point towards the 2nd video 'cuz the first one I think was kinda obvious, but I encourage to see the whole serie of four videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alQ...KayAndSkittles

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoth
    replied
    And the last few pages of posts shows exactly why it is more important to focus on a vampire story in a vampire series, rather than being tempted to use vampire themes to tell a completely different story.

    Vampires as a metaphor for "X" isn't a vampire story, its a PSA with fangs. This gets compounded when those who are making the project are not fans of the source material, you get things like M. Night Shyamalan's Avater: The Last Airbender where no one noticed that the characters names were being spoken incorrectly.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

    You mean the show that shows a group fighting for equal rights as evil and wanting to take away peoples bending. Theirs a reason people argue rather season ones villan is meant to be facism or communism.

    And you can do socially concius horror see Jordan Peeles work
    I dunno, nationalists with a persecution complex and victimization of perceived entitled minorities aren't actually THAT bad of a topic to cover in a 1930s-esque setting.

    I actually think they were drawing from both Nazis and Stalinist communists.

    Which may not be the best groups to combine but hardly the only story to do so.

    Edit:

    Tolkien talked about the difference between metaphor and applicability which he felt was important when discussing SERIOUS literature. A metaphor can be easily tripped up because if you think they're talking about WW2 with orcs or Sauron then you will confuse readers because things will probably not be 1:1. APPLICABILITY means that you can use fantasy to talk about something without making a perfect parallel.

    He said that if The Lord of the Rings was metaphorical for his wartime experiences then Saruman would have won.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 06:47 PM.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Trippy View Post

    Thing is, if you ignore that the the protagonist is female, it doesn’t really have anything to say that is especially political. It’s just a typical, fun, effects-driven Marvel movie with a personal empowerment motif. If somebody try to protest against it’s ‘woke-ness’ or supposed political message, then it says more about them than anything else.
    There's the undercurrent of sexism to Captain Marvel's work in the Air Force but the thing is that everyone's line for "inclusiveness" and "progressive" is different. It's also going to be differentiated on the subject of the audience's beliefs too.

    Alan Ball's True Blood was praised in some circles because it was a show with a lot of gay content and parallells set in the Deep South to make the metaphor explicit (Charlaine Harris had the books have vampires=gay too). He thought being a vampire was a MUCH better thing to aspire to than victim 13# on other shows like many gay characters.

    Other gay viewers noted that making the primary gay analogs be brutal murderers wasn't as progressive as they thought.

    Personally, I side with the kindred instead of the CATTLE!

    Leave a comment:


  • Konradleijon
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    I think "woke" as a perjorative is a weird idea too since it was a term by the black community to mean members that have become aware of systemic racism and abuses. It's since been co-opted as a slur by the Alt-Right.

    Which is ironic because Korra is like 4 seasons of Korra becoming aware of systemic bias against Benders, peasants vs. the Monarchy, and the evils Ethno-Nationalism.

    (Season 2 is her fighting the Devil so that doesn't count)
    You mean the show that shows a group fighting for equal rights as evil and wanting to take away peoples bending. Theirs a reason people argue rather season ones villan is meant to be facism or communism.

    And you can do socially concius horror see Jordan Peeles work

    Leave a comment:


  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    My apologies, it's just a billion and a quarter not counting merchandising. Clearly a financial failure.






    I think what made it angering rather than just sad was that even when the movie massively succeeded, people kept trying to come up with excuses why it didn't. I couldn't understand it because you could still hate the movie. No one said that it had to be good or that you had to like it but they needed it to FAIL financially and critically. I couldn't grock that. Why? Later, I would realize it was the fact that they didn't want to be cool outliers. They wanted to be the MAJORITY. If Captain Marvel succeeded then that meant that their opinions about what exactly was the tastes of the public didn't mean shit. Because they weren't judging it because of the objective value of the movie.

    They were judging it because of a perceived agenda. If that agenda didn't sink a movie, it meant the world had moved on.

    Which it has.
    Thing is, if you ignore that the the protagonist is female, it doesn’t really have anything to say that is especially political. It’s just a typical, fun, effects-driven Marvel movie with a personal empowerment motif. If somebody try to protest against it’s ‘woke-ness’ or supposed political message, then it says more about them than anything else.

    Leave a comment:


  • Undead rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Yeah, Captain Marvel is the 26th highest grossing.
    And Black Panter is 12th, and Last Jedi 14th

    "Go woke go broke"...the only things that went broke are the alt-righters' brain. Melted like a Fukushima's reactor.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Trippy View Post
    To quote Mark Rein-Hagen in Vampire: The Masquerade 1st edition - “Creativity is hiding your sources”.
    Random bit of hilarity, my greatest campaign of all time according to my players was a Star Wars D6 one. Then they were FURIOUS, a decade later, to discover that it was almost a scene for scene retelling of Dark Empire.



    Haha.

    https://i.imgur.com/BwDXlKv.jpeg
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 06:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
    Yeah, Captain Marvel is the 26th highest grossing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    As for derivativeness, I think that the problem is that originality is...overrated. I don't think many people care that much about it and if they do, they're not someone to take seriously. There's nothing new under the sun and the point is not doing something new but doing something "well." Assuming that someone who watches the show will have watched previous shows inspired by the WOD is already an assumption but so is the fact that they won't be watching these shows BECAUSE they're fans of previous shows.

    I watched Underworld BECAUSE I'm an WOD fan and if you're a True Blood fan you probably will watch V:TM because it is full of vampire sheriffs, monarchs, weird human-vampire relationships, and politics.
    To quote Mark Rein-Hagen in Vampire: The Masquerade 1st edition - “Creativity is hiding your sources”.

    Leave a comment:


  • Undead rabbit
    replied
    Originally posted by Legendre View Post


    Even if you adjust for inflation, I don't think there's more than maybe a dozen.... maybe 15? 14? Something like that.

    More like 50

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...grossing_films

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Legendre View Post

    Movies are sort of a hobby of mine, and I can only think of maybe 4 or 5 movies that have ever made "billions". Even gross.

    Even if you adjust for inflation, I don't think there's more than maybe a dozen.... maybe 15? 14? Something like that.

    I'd be *stunned* if Captain Marvel were one of them.
    My apologies, it's just a billion and a quarter not counting merchandising. Clearly a financial failure.






    I think what made it angering rather than just sad was that even when the movie massively succeeded, people kept trying to come up with excuses why it didn't. I couldn't understand it because you could still hate the movie. No one said that it had to be good or that you had to like it but they needed it to FAIL financially and critically. I couldn't grock that. Why? Later, I would realize it was the fact that they didn't want to be cool outliers. They wanted to be the MAJORITY. If Captain Marvel succeeded then that meant that their opinions about what exactly was the tastes of the public didn't mean shit. Because they weren't judging it because of the objective value of the movie.

    They were judging it because of a perceived agenda. If that agenda didn't sink a movie, it meant the world had moved on.

    Which it has.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 06:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Legendre
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I also note that people thought Captain Marvel would bomb because of it and it made billions, which people on some forums I frequent denied...
    Movies are sort of a hobby of mine, and I can only think of maybe 4 or 5 movies that have ever made "billions". Even gross.

    Even if you adjust for inflation, I don't think there's more than maybe a dozen.... maybe 15? 14? Something like that.

    I'd be *stunned* if Captain Marvel were one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Gubenyochi View Post
    It will be interesting to see how they do the show without having non-WoD fans being like "they ripped off <insert Vampire show>" and tuning out. I say this because a lot of other shows have adapted various aspects of WoD into their worlds, but the new audience won't know that WoD is where those ideas actually originated. I feel if they can overcome that hurdle the show should be successful.

    Side note: Anyone know about the WoD VR?
    I mean, we already know what that is.



    Sadly, it's not enough for me to get a headset.

    As for derivativeness, I think that the problem is that originality is...overrated. I don't think many people care that much about it and if they do, they're not someone to take seriously. There's nothing new under the sun and the point is not doing something new but doing something "well." Assuming that someone who watches the show will have watched previous shows inspired by the WOD is already an assumption but so is the fact that they won't be watching these shows BECAUSE they're fans of previous shows.

    I watched Underworld BECAUSE I'm an WOD fan and if you're a True Blood fan you probably will watch V:TM because it is full of vampire sheriffs, monarchs, weird human-vampire relationships, and politics.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-28-2021, 05:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gubenyochi
    replied
    It will be interesting to see how they do the show without having non-WoD fans being like "they ripped off <insert Vampire show>" and tuning out. I say this because a lot of other shows have adapted various aspects of WoD into their worlds, but the new audience won't know that WoD is where those ideas actually originated. I feel if they can overcome that hurdle the show should be successful.

    Side note: Anyone know about the WoD VR?
    Launched in 1991 with the tabletop roleplaying game “Vampire: The Masquerade,” the World of Darkness universe includes other properties like “Werewolf: The Apocalypse,” “Mage: The Ascension,” “Orpheus,” and “Hunter: The Reckoning,” and has expanded to video games, comic books, novels, virtual reality and card and board games.

    Leave a comment:

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