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Remember when they said there is gonna be a tv show.?

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  • CajunKhan
    replied
    Inclusivity is wonderful so long as characters are still allowed to have character-flaws and character-arcs. The problem I've seen in some inclusivity-focused products is that the main character isn't allowed to have any flaws, and consequently any character-arc other than casting off the patriarchy. To me, an excellent inclusivity show is Jessica Jones. She's flawed, she grows as a character. A bad inclusivity product is the new "Mulan". She's flawless and the closest thing to a character-arc she has is casting off the judgement of those who claim she isn't flawless. Her only imperfection is not knowing she was perfect all along, and her growth is realizing her utter perfection. And she is so boring.

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  • Trippy
    replied
    Another article up. Must be big news or something:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he..._UuMOp7SH8Mz3M

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Trippy View Post
    Vampire 1st edition was notable for a number of things, one of which was deliberately using female pronouns for the purpose of promoting inclusivity. It has a tradition of its own.
    I remember Chicago by Night 1st Edition was notable for the fact it was the first supplement I could remember that had people of color, gay, lesbian, and other minorities.

    It had been a very white European D&D-esque hobby for me before.

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  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    I feel like talking about the dangers of inclusivity diluting a product fundamentally misunderstands the appeal of Vampire: The Masquerade in the first place.
    Vampire 1st edition was notable for a number of things, one of which was deliberately using female pronouns for the purpose of promoting inclusivity. It has a tradition of its own.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoth View Post

    On the DVD commentary for Dog Soldiers, the people who worked on the script said they wanted to tell a "soldier story that had werewolves" rather than a "werewolf story that soldiers happened to be in".

    I think it is fair to say that everyone who is a V:tM fan will want a good vampire story, monsters being monsters or struggling against being monsters. Rather than having a political point of view draped in our favorite themes. The infamous Witcher series villain "scrotum armor" comes to mind as an example of shoe horned politics.

    But once you try for mass market appeal, inevitably you water down the unique branding of the IP to offend as few as possible and engage as many as possible. Thus becoming a jack of all trades and master of none.

    When I think back to when True Blood premiered, the hype was about the story and how the vampire society was handled., rather than inclusivity being at the forefront of the marketing. Yet the writers managed to make Lafayette a very enjoyable character.

    We can chalk up the article trying for mass market appeal or the writer not understanding that the vampire part should come first before all the other baggage of mortal life. But we can likewise understand that when some buzzwords get thrown around before say a focus on the clans or the lore of the WoD, then we start moving our expectations from Underworld clone to the Star Wars Xmas special.
    I feel like talking about the dangers of inclusivity diluting a product fundamentally misunderstands the appeal of Vampire: The Masquerade in the first place.

    I also note that people thought Captain Marvel would bomb because of it and it made billions, which people on some forums I frequent denied because it utterly refuted their view that broad based multicutural and inclusive writing were not actually extremely lucractive.

    "go woke go broke" is also a disguise usually for much nastier motivations.

    Edit:

    And the Expanse and WItcher are both fantastic programs that are critically acclaimed as well as genre darlings. I think Vampire: The Masquerade will be fine.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-27-2021, 07:13 PM.

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  • Thoth
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyremne View Post
    Let's be fair. When the first and main thing that the writer mention is "inclusivity", you know that we'll have a mediocre show at best.
    On the DVD commentary for Dog Soldiers, the people who worked on the script said they wanted to tell a "soldier story that had werewolves" rather than a "werewolf story that soldiers happened to be in".

    I think it is fair to say that everyone who is a V:tM fan will want a good vampire story, monsters being monsters or struggling against being monsters. Rather than having a political point of view draped in our favorite themes. The infamous Witcher series villain "scrotum armor" comes to mind as an example of shoe horned politics.

    But once you try for mass market appeal, inevitably you water down the unique branding of the IP to offend as few as possible and engage as many as possible. Thus becoming a jack of all trades and master of none.

    When I think back to when True Blood premiered, the hype was about the story and how the vampire society was handled., rather than inclusivity being at the forefront of the marketing. Yet the writers managed to make Lafayette a very enjoyable character.

    We can chalk up the article trying for mass market appeal or the writer not understanding that the vampire part should come first before all the other baggage of mortal life. But we can likewise understand that when some buzzwords get thrown around before say a focus on the clans or the lore of the WoD, then we start moving our expectations from Underworld clone to the Star Wars Xmas special.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
    You would think so. But then again, I'd make an argument for Mage: The Ascension at this point. We've had plenty of shows that dealt with magic users lately. The Magicians, for one example. I think the viewing public might be ready for Mage.
    I do remember when The Matrix came out, and everybody was gushing about how mind exploding it was, I was thinking ‘what’s the big deal, I’ve been playing Mage for years..’.

    I think the major problem with Mage, in any medium actually, is that it has a lot of complex ideas in it, which may be difficult to convey in a TV medium. I’d actually argue the same about Wraith too, depending on how they want to go about doing it.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    It's also particularly notable in the fact that V20 still has robust sales, V5 is the new baby, and Chronicles of Darkness is still churning out books.

    So putting down past or new editions is, well, not good on a forum for the company.

    It's also just rude to the developers and fans alike.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoth View Post

    I believe a lawyer made a similar argument in the UK about loot boxes being classified as "surprise mechanics" rather than gambling.

    In all seriousness though, I hadn't heard the term "edition warring" and there was nothing on the forum rules page and no rules expansions on this forum regarding it, so I was curious as to the definition of "edition warring" when discussing different systems as a metric of quality or functionality.

    Does that mean if I say "THAC0 for life" that it is a bannable offense or does it work only in one direction, i.e. WW XP systems are superior to 2nd edition AD&D level progression systems and thus safe to say?
    ‘Edition warring’ exists in a group of fans surrounding one particular game line that has multiple editions - with camps dividing over the variances between editions. It is actually fairly frequent whenever any established game gets a new edition, but it is acute to Vampire: The Masquerade in this case, because this is a Vampire forum and the game has a reasonably complicated publication history and a relatively recent new edition.

    If you say ’THACO for life’ it could be construed as edition warring, but seeing as this is not a D&D/AD&D forum, it is unlikely to be controversial here. You could try and provoke a reaction on a D&D forum, although these days the likely response might be ‘what is a THACO?’.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bluecho
    replied
    Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

    They mentioned Orpheus over Wraith?

    ...........................................lol
    This was my thought, as well.


    Article: "It's all your favorite WoD games! Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Orpheus..."
    Wraith: "Hello, Darkness, my old friend..."


    (Granted, apropos as fuck.)

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoth View Post

    I believe a lawyer made a similar argument in the UK about loot boxes being classified as "surprise mechanics" rather than gambling.

    In all seriousness though, I hadn't heard the term "edition warring" and there was nothing on the forum rules page and no rules expansions on this forum regarding it, so I was curious as to the definition of "edition warring" when discussing different systems as a metric of quality or functionality.

    Does that mean if I say "THAC0 for life" that it is a bannable offense or does it work only in one direction, i.e. WW XP systems are superior to 2nd edition AD&D level progression systems and thus safe to say?
    When I was taken on as a mod, it was in part to put an end to the conflict between fans of V20, V5, and Requiem that OPP was producing products for ALL THREE OF.

    Basically, if you're a fan for a product produced by OPP then you're welcome here and putting down fans or a product line they produce is not welcome. It's not a terribly difficult decision to understand in business or artistic terms..

    We're all WOD fans here. Let's agree to disagree and celebrate OPP's awesome writing.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-27-2021, 06:28 PM.

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  • Bluecho
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    VtM is the easier to get your head around, and could serve as an entry point for the larger WoD.
    You would think so. But then again, I'd make an argument for Mage: The Ascension at this point. We've had plenty of shows that dealt with magic users lately. The Magicians, for one example. I think the viewing public might be ready for Mage.

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  • nofather
    replied
    It's rule 3.

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  • Thoth
    replied
    Originally posted by Trippy View Post

    That is not edition warring. That is promoting your own product over a competitor.
    I believe a lawyer made a similar argument in the UK about loot boxes being classified as "surprise mechanics" rather than gambling.

    In all seriousness though, I hadn't heard the term "edition warring" and there was nothing on the forum rules page and no rules expansions on this forum regarding it, so I was curious as to the definition of "edition warring" when discussing different systems as a metric of quality or functionality.

    Does that mean if I say "THAC0 for life" that it is a bannable offense or does it work only in one direction, i.e. WW XP systems are superior to 2nd edition AD&D level progression systems and thus safe to say?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trippy
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    The team involved has a lot of talent and past successes. So I am cautiously optimistic.
    I wonder if this will start with just a VtM type of show before moving on to others. If some VtM show makes money, then maybe the producers will feel like risking money on a WtA or MtAs show. VtM is the easier to get your head around, and could serve as an entry point for the larger WoD.
    The track record of any game, tabletop or video, being converted into a TV show or movie that is praiseworthy isn’t great. Good TV shows are based on good scripts, direction and acting - rather than the criteria of what makes a good game. However, if expectations aren’t high then it could end up being really good for the brand as well as the audience. As I indicated above, it could help to accelerate the production of new games.

    Leave a comment:

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