Demon: the Fallen - Who are some good modern marks for making the Pact with?

[Mercurial]

So, the world has changed in the past two decades, and I am curious who you think would make good targets for the Pact in our modern world? Flat-earthers, seem like a likely candidate. Just promise to give them (Science) Mathematics 5 so they can try to prove conclusively that the Earth is flat. Qanons also seem to be a good target. The ability to sense Demons and/or Occult 5 (specialty: Secret Societies) would probably snag a few of those guys. And of course, everyone once to be a star on TikTok, so I am sure that crowd would be easy to make a Pact with in exchange for five more minutes of fame. Devils and Defilers likely would be able to make Tailored Pacts (see Damned and Decieved) that would be perfect to keep the views coming.

Who would you target and with what?

[Prometheas]

If we're being honest? 90% of the human population. Especially religious officials.

It wouldn't even be hard, just re-phase how you're making the pact. For example:

1. if you're an earthbound, you can claim to be a genie and "grant" the person 3 wishes(I.E. 3 pacts, handwave the "personal Possession" requirement as the "price of the wish"). after the third pact the person now is bound to listen to you forever.
2. if you're a fallen, appear in apocalyptic form in front of someone and claim that they're going to hell unless they perform some inane task(the task itself doesn't matter, but it should at least be hard hard that it's a believable "trial"). After that's done "grant" the person a "blessing" under the guise that you're now the angel(or other religious entity, you don't Have to stick to abrahamic faiths here) assigned to monitor their progress on the path back to "salvation".

Honestly, forging pacts is like ghouling, It's trivially easy if you know what you're doing, but the game lore acts like it's some kind of olympic task. It's only made weirder by the fact that you're a demon, unlike a vampire neonate you Should know what their doing because you innately know how to make pact as per the lore And any character's with dots in Legacy will have memories of doing it back during the war against heaven.

[Mercurial]

Honestly, forging pacts is like ghouling, It's trivially easy if you know what you're doing, but the game lore acts like it's some kind of olympic task.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. It should be trivially easy, especially when you don't have to actually mention anything about the Infernal to the people you are approaching.

[Reasor]

"Damned and Deceived" does suggest that Faith can wear a lot of guises. Conspiracy theorists, diehard political partisans, and members of various fandoms can have a lot of potential, as they're already looking for something greater than themselves to identify with and belong to when the Fallen comes along into their lives.

Ideally, I think it should be a personal relationship in concept, in which the Demon learns enough about the potential Thrall to know what bait they won't say no to. This takes time and presents a roleplay opportunity, even with some subtle interrogation under the influence of Lore of Humanity to speed things along.

Even if the Fallen isn't completely candid about its nature, the Thrall should *believe* that they're talking to someone or something who can help them through paranormal means. The Fallen might present themselves as a heavenly angel, a faith healer, a defense contractor who saw alien technology while working at a secret base, a psychic who can work crystals to unlock the Thrall's chakras, or whatever else, as long as it's something that stirs that particular Thrall's Faith so that it can be harnessed and put to work.

[Mercurial]

"Damned and Deceived" does suggest that Faith can wear a lot of guises. Conspiracy theorists, diehard political partisans, and members of various fandoms can have a lot of potential, as they're already looking for something greater than themselves to identify with and belong to when the Fallen comes along into their lives.

Ideally, I think it should be a personal relationship in concept, in which the Demon learns enough about the potential Thrall to know what bait they won't say no to. This takes time and presents a roleplay opportunity, even with some subtle interrogation under the influence of Lore of Humanity to speed things along.

Even if the Fallen isn't completely candid about its nature, the Thrall should *believe* that they're talking to someone or something who can help them through paranormal means. The Fallen might present themselves as a heavenly angel, a faith healer, a defense contractor who saw alien technology while working at a secret base, a psychic who can work crystals to unlock the Thrall's chakras, or whatever else, as long as it's something that stirs that particular Thrall's Faith so that it can be harnessed and put to work.

Yeah, I view the current crop of "Stop The Steal" and "Globe Skeptics" as low hanging fruit to anyone who can get to them before the other Fallen. Above average Faith potentials plus gullibility equals a big payday for the Fallen. Can you think of any other types to go after? Preferably the more comical sort?

[Devidramoth]

What about people who are looking for the Winter of Death coming for people who refuse vaccines? That seems a keen target for a ravener.

[Prometheas]

What about people who are looking for the Winter of Death coming for people who refuse vaccines? That seems a keen target for a ravener.

People who refuse vaccines aren't looking to die or cause death, quite the opposite in most cases. The issue is that they've somehow come to the conclusion that vaccines are the problem rather than the thing keeping them alive. As they say "you can't use logic to get people out of a mindset that they didn't use Logic to get into".

...Unless you mean Raveners specifically targeting vaccine deniers and feeding their hysteria to spread plagues? That sounds like something Ravener Scourges would be 100% on board with(not that it makes much sense. Creating hell on earth just makes everything terrible for everyone, including the Ravener. Why have none of the Raveners used the two seconds it takes to realize that hating humanity/god/whatever for ruining the earth and deciding to ruin the earth Worse than they ever have to punish them is ideological equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot to punish it for stubbing your toe)

[Reasor]

The Raveners find the current state of things intolerable, and have given up on things getting better. They're essentially about despair and what hopelessness can turn us into if we let it. They've given up on finding any end to their own suffering, except provoking God into finishing them off. If they can vicariously lash out at mortals or Lucifer or their former comrades in arms for failing them, then that'll do for now.

Not saying I agree, I just... get it. Even escaping from the Abyss turned out to be a big disappointment for these creatures. There's some good tragedy in that.

[Prometheas]

The Raveners find the current state of things intolerable, and have given up on things getting better. They're essentially about despair and what hopelessness can turn us into if we let it. They've given up on finding any end to their own suffering, except provoking God into finishing them off. If they can vicariously lash out at mortals or Lucifer or their former comrades in arms for failing them, then that'll do for now.

Not saying I agree, I just... get it. Even escaping from the Abyss turned out to be a big disappointment for these creatures. There's some good tragedy in that.

I get it as well, I have chronic depression and went through a similar(if less extreme) phase as a teen, but that's also my point. For most IRL people, that's a Phase that they grow out of in a couple years at most.

Even during the events in history right before violent revolution, when Nihilism is like the common cold because the country has gotten That bad, the Vast majority of people are of the mindsets of "Things are getting Dicy, I need to make sure I/My family have the resources to survive at all costs", "Things are getting Dicy, I should enjoy life while I still can because I'll probably die any day now", or "Things are getting Dicy, I need to fix this "before"/"to limit the damage when" it blows up".

Narratively, Raveners are just a repeat of the "Bad-guy demon faction" that the Earthbound take up, but aren't as intimidating. They don't really need to exist, because demons can already join the Earthbound faction's cause of "sinking creation in a second rebellion" or become compelled to service by the earthbound.

Honestly, I think the Raveners would make more sense as the "Screw This" faction rather than another designated enemy faction. Have them still be a faction that's lost any faith in the "causes" in the four-way free-for-all battle royal between Humanity, Lucifer, The Earthbound, and Heaven, but instead have them be faction dedicated to sitting the apocalypse out(essentially where all the people go who A. want no part in the war and are trying to make a underground bunker somewhere so that they can survive until it's over, B. want to party their time away from the abyss until the apocalypse happens because they know when it does they'll be back in the abyss, unmade, or a slave to Lucifer/The Earthbound, or C. are trying to sabotage the other faction's plans to prevent them from Causing the apocalypse in the first place.)

[Devidramoth]

In the US the president said that people who declined the vaccine had nothing to look forward to but a "Winter of illness and death" which some vaccine-mandate supporting people near me have been looking forward to with a distressing amount of anticipation. It didn't come last winter or spring, but they're still waiting for the 'anti-vaxxers' to get their comeuppance for not being 'responsible'.

I feel like an enraged rabisu would be more than happy to accommodate such a person or like-minded group.

And as you said, they even get to play both sides by making the paranoid people think something is out to get them (it is)

[Shadeprowler]

Honestly, forging pacts is like ghouling, It's trivially easy if you know what you're doing, but the game lore acts like it's some kind of olympic task. It's only made weirder by the fact that you're a demon, unlike a vampire neonate you Should know what their doing because you innately know how to make pact as per the lore And any character's with dots in Legacy will have memories of doing it back during the war against heaven.

This bothered me to the point, I "fixed" it so to speak
Since it is about Faith, before someone "sell his soul" to you, you have to make him to Belive in you; not just know. As they say, the knowledge is the death of faith. As Sir Terry Pratchet wrote:
“Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.” ― Sir Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad"
So my Demon players have to work damn hard to build up the fate in them (or the clever ones, to piggyback the existing fate), make their target actually belive in them!
After all,. the whole point of the Babel Project/Time of Babel was to mass ascend humanity, awaken their god spark to be akin to God... but when the Nephelim murdered the Ten, enslaved Humanity and Lucifer had to hunt them down was too much for the humans and they "broke". Came the Sahttering. The Civilization of Ashes crumbled under the burden of knowledge humankind was unprepared to wield. The spiritual trauma was enough for Humanity to lose their faith in the Fallen, to forget witch was basically the rason the Fallen lost against the Host.
So rebulding this faith, this belief in them? Yea, should be a monumental, personal and quite an olympic task, sure you can show yourself to reap the faith quick and dirty but fear or awe don't equal fate in you, the human won't suddanly start to belive in you. You can of course sell yourself as an Angel or anything basically, but risky.
Court that mortal, build up that fate in you, make him belive in you, you are capable of doing miracles and finally, convince him to sell his soul tou you, or trust you enough to bound his soul to your essence!
In my personal oppinon this makes a Thrall truly valuable and the source of your power.
In other words, every Fallen should take Cults 101 from a Settite or Baali
On the same note, I regulary torment my Fallen players with Salubri warriors, who by the Blooding took up a name of an Angel who shared its power to that cursed creature to hunt Demons

[Prometheas]

This bothered me to the point, I "fixed" it so to speak
Since it is about Faith, before someone "sell his soul" to you, you have to make him to Belive in you; not just know. As they say, the knowledge is the death of faith. As Sir Terry Pratchet wrote:
“Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.” ― Sir Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad"
So my Demon players have to work damn hard to build up the fate in them (or the clever ones, to piggyback the existing fate), make their target actually belive in them!
After all,. the whole point of the Babel Project/Time of Babel was to mass ascend humanity, awaken their god spark to be akin to God... but when the Nephelim murdered the Ten, enslaved Humanity and Lucifer had to hunt them down was too much for the humans and they "broke". Came the Sahttering. The Civilization of Ashes crumbled under the burden of knowledge humankind was unprepared to wield. The spiritual trauma was enough for Humanity to lose their faith in the Fallen, to forget witch was basically the rason the Fallen lost against the Host.
So rebulding this faith, this belief in them? Yea, should be a monumental, personal and quite an olympic task, sure you can show yourself to reap the faith quick and dirty but fear or awe don't equal fate in you, the human won't suddanly start to belive in you. You can of course sell yourself as an Angel or anything basically, but risky.
Court that mortal, build up that fate in you, make him belive in you, you are capable of doing miracles and finally, convince him to sell his soul tou you, or trust you enough to bound his soul to your essence!
In my personal oppinon this makes a Thrall truly valuable and the source of your power.
In other words, every Fallen should take Cults 101 from a Settite or Baali

I can agree to extent(except on the Baali and Settites. Their MO tends to be abusing Blood bonds, drugs, presence and dominate make easy-bake instant cults, fucking cheaters).

I would say that on minimum a player putting that much work should get a faith 3 thrall. That is a Lot of effort and going long periods of time without faith to only get a basic cynic. Maybe have this be the requirements for binding a mortal with more than 1 point in faith.

On the same note, I regulary torment my Fallen players with Salubri warriors, who by the Blooding took up a name of an Angel who shared its power to that cursed creature to hunt Demons

Huh, that's actually a cool idea. It also fits the sabbat's MO of hunting infernalists(At least until you start taking about the high level elders who are using this as a cover for the fact that they Are infernalists).