Dark Ages Fae

[Kakost]

Why is DA Fae so different from Changelling the Dream to the point of being an entirely different game alltogheter, and did it never got any sequence to it?

I found that to be one of the most fascinating games in all of WoD. What's the relation between it and CtD?

[No One of Consequence]

It's vastly different because it takes place a few hundred years before the majority of Fae either left for Arcadia or underwent the Changling Way to survive the changing world. It's more or less what Changelings were before they had to become Changelings.

Changeling, unfortunately, never sold as well as some of the other games, and had stopped producing any new material a few years before Dark Ages: Fae was made. There are a number of financial and other calculations that go into a company deciding which books to make. I've no idea how much profit the book turned, or what other factors may have influenced the decision not to make a Companion book or any other follow ups.

[Prometheas]

Why is DA Fae so different from Changelling the Dream to the point of being an entirely different game alltogheter, and did it never got any sequence to it?

I found that to be one of the most fascinating games in all of WoD. What's the relation between it and CtD?

Dark ages Fae is still 100% what changeling was before the sundering(when the old fae left for arcadia and the mysts became so strong that they became a mostly negative force they now refer to as banality).

There was a book that went over what happened, but I'm still trying to look for it.

The TL;DR is that the Old Fae found a way to turn the changelings that had their Fae Soul destroyed through baptism into Myst-nukes in their wars and ended up Severely damaging their home realm. Essentially, the Old Fae are responsible for turning the largely helpful Mysts into a deadly plague of Banality that are killing the remaining changelings on earth.

[Alphari]

I think it's the following: different story, themes, atmosphere, significantly changed mechanics, rarity of fairies.

Let's compare:

• Let's talk about the available types of fairies. Modern changelings have several subtypes: there are changelings themselves and many half-spirits, half-faeries, chimeras in elementals, statues or living nature, even banality-fairy and so on. In the Dark Ages, we have less choice - True fairy and changelings (that's the whole choice, if I'm not mistaken), maybe one more subspecies. & No legacy in DA
• Fairies in ancient times are powerful (because they are True Fairies). But due to changes in the world of people, they cannot manifest their power or appear on their own. Seriously, it even says that the first fairies turned into a fiery whirlwind and self-destructed. In the modern world, changeling powers are limited in the human world (more power in the Dreaming). They can use the same manipulations, but they are more difficult (sometimes weaker).
• Balance of Power. In modern changelings, the player has 2 (3) stats - Glamour, Banality, and a certain Nightmare. Glamor is your strength and connection with the Dream and your fairy self. Banality is the power of everyday life, stopping the chaos of dreams, killing dreams and fantasies, logic and order, static... And a nightmare. Just, let's just say it's some twisted/dark version of glamour, which hurts you. Or imagine it as a debt to Glamor or Banality.
• Balance of Power. Dark Ages. Everything is more complicated here. There is no banality here, not now. There is Glamour, Mist/Weave (I don't remember the name, I need to open the book) and Echo. In the Dark Ages, Glamor / Mist / Echo are separate characteristics that have dots/levels. You probably think like that, I'm super strong - banality will not stop me. But, you must keep the balance of power. If your glamor is too strong, you will get closer with Wyrd and Dream powers, but it will be harder to maintain control and you will just burn in your power/chaos. Yes, you will dissolve in Glamour (or, more precisely, perhaps you will turn into a certain phenomenon - a fiery tornado and fade away). Want to increase control and stability? Wisely, but if the balance is not maintained - the stagnation of glamor and gradual death. You die because control stopped the chaos of Dreaming - you could say you died of banality. Echo - the scourge and curse of the fairies, their gift and power. It is literally a local system of myths, traditions and beliefs. Roughly speaking, this thing can punish and kill you at an absolutely inconvenient moment. I don’t remember exactly the rules - you need to look in the book, they are big. So, let's say, if the local peasants believe that throwing salt over the shoulder can scare away the fairy - your powerful god from the Dreaming, the summoner of storms and the universal handsome man will run away like the last (or first) coward. If they believe that cursing with swearing and spitting in your face is an effective remedy against devils (and you look like a devil) - you will take agg damage... from the fact that a peasant cursed you and spat in your face.
• You probably ask - but how to resist the echo? Well, the first thing is not to be exposed to it. How to do it? Well, you can resist with some stats + you can not meet the criteria for that echo. Let's say if you don't look like a demon, then the local protective prayer against deomns will not hurt. You also need to remember that the True fairies either created their bodies or "borrowed" (as it is written in the book). They are echo sensitive. But their grip on glamor is better. On the other hand, Echo forces and breaks. If you resist the echo, it will do something. What exactly - you need to look in the book.
• Changelings have slightly better resistance, but their fey soul is at risk of dying if they are christened/baptized. Also, their control of the Dreaming has weakened a little and they are shackled by medieval and fey (specifically changeling) norms and restrictions. Example - don't get married, it can really kill you (well maybe don't but you can lose power, and some other bad things) In other words, if you play as a modern (or old-fairy style) fairy, you must be burned, baptized, or exorcised. The history of their appearance is quite typical - they simply tear out the souls of babies and settle in bodies or simply possessed bodies (like demons).
• Any fairy in the Dark Ages can "take" a new look that she wants or that is more in line with the echo. So a fairy who has become a demon can acquire some freedom and restrictions. As well as additional strengths and weaknesses. And the character of a fairy can change - let's say a demon can become a true sadist. What did you want when you accepted local fantasy?
• I remember that fairies in the Middle Ages could also change powers. In other words, you exchanged one of your fey powers for others, but this also changed you (in appearance and in character). They also have a list of fairy artifacts. Fairies in the Middle Ages could make deals with people and entire villages, cities, countries and nations. But without the control of the fairy and with the passage of time and changes in society - the pacts weaken and break.
• Did I tell you about politics? As far as I remember, then there were about 4 local courts of nobles. Each for a specific time of year (season). Each court has a certain code of conduct, character(behavior), norms, and so on. All this is in the book. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there is some setting for the time. The time of day&night gives bonuses and weaknesses to various powers.
• Remember I talked about politics and history? So, there is something else in the history of those fairies about the ancient battle that brought ruin to them. And there is also age - it shows what you have seen. Let's say you exist somewhere from the beginning of the creation of a fairy civilization, or you were born and participated in a great battle, or you only heard about all this, or even just appeared and know almost nothing even about the big events that took place relatively recently. It gives some bonuses.

This is what I could remember without opening book. I can not say that DA:Fairies are unplayable or bad. I like them. But their theme is clearly different from pranks and attempts to hide the despair of Banality in modern fairies. This applies to all medieval rulers - they are different, more serious or historical (?).
Of course, their book is not easy to read. Well, personally, I got confused as I started.
Edited: DA:F dont have glamour, they have mist. Also there are more types of Fairy

[Jackob]

DA: Fae is my second-favorite Dark Ages game. Too bad it came at the tail end of the Dark Ages line.

[Kakost]

I never bought Changelling the Lost because I never cared too much about the new line, I just looked on the internet at it and I feel in love by the general description - it truly seems an awesome game. By the way, there are some titles of the CoD that seems great, like Prometeans, Changelling the Lost and Geist; what I read about the Wereabeasts also pleased me greatly, particularly because WtA was never my fav on WoD, but I cannot think myself changing from WrtO to Geist, and it's impossible not to have the Technocracy.

But I have 3 incredible games of Fae, who are totally different, incompatible and equally awesome. Sure thing I never tried to get the rules for the CoD, but I could adapt. And my problem is, I would love to have all the 3 in my games

[Alphari]

I would love to have all the 3 in my games

In theory, you can spit on the rules and take the fairies from the dark ages with their features. But this is hard to do with COD. I mean, too many rules need to be changed, and COD changelings are people stolen by fairies (or am I wrong?). But to be honest, I do not really understand what exactly you want to combine.
I would recommend looking for crossover posts.

[Kakost]

In theory, you can spit on the rules and take the fairies from the dark ages with their features. But this is hard to do with COD. I mean, too many rules need to be changed, and COD changelings are people stolen by fairies (or am I wrong?). But to be honest, I do not really understand what exactly you want to combine.
I would recommend looking for crossover posts.

I would just use the concepts from CtL, like I said I dont even have the book nor have I ever gave myself the trouble to learn the rules for CoD. I have no problem adapting thou. I do have my own version of WoD to which I mix a bunch of stuff, and while it's relatively easy to use any one of the 3 for the Fae, the 3 games dont mix togheter in a single world, which is a pitty.

Hum... Unless I made the "True Fae" from CtL to become something like "Elder-Things" a la Cthulhu...

I can make the Changellings from CtD to be "half Fae", but that would reduce the DA Fae to just the Firstborn and Elementals...

So in the end, that would leave me with 3 fundamentally different types of critters of the hidden world, still based on this awesome concepts

[monteparnas]

I would just use the concepts from CtL, like I said I dont even have the book nor have I ever gave myself the trouble to learn the rules for CoD. I have no problem adapting thou. I do have my own version of WoD to which I mix a bunch of stuff, and while it's relatively easy to use any one of the 3 for the Fae, the 3 games dont mix togheter in a single world, which is a pitty.

Hum... Unless I made the "True Fae" from CtL to become something like "Elder-Things" a la Cthulhu...

I can make the Changellings from CtD to be "half Fae", but that would reduce the DA Fae to just the Firstborn and Elementals...

So in the end, that would leave me with 3 fundamentally different types of critters of the hidden world, still based on this awesome concepts

CoD rules are plain better than WoD rules, but that's besides the point.

You don't need a lot of adaptation concept-wise for any of those. For CtD + DA: Fae, Changelings are just Fae that went through the Changeling Way and are living in the modern world. Concept-wise they're the same creatures under distinct circumstances and it is perfectly possible that DA style Fae still exist in the Dreaming, you would just have to come up with the mechanics for dealing with the current level of Banality (and you can just borrow the rules for Dark-Kin in the C20 book).

And the Lost are humans transformed by their stay in Arcadia. Not compatible? The first body of a Changeling in CtD sends the human soul to Arcadia. Every Arcadian Sidhe occupies a stolen body whose soul they sent to Arcadia, something they believe to be a blessing, but isn't necessarily from the PoV of those human souls. When CtD's Changelings have children there's also a chance that this child is a new fairy, despite the fact that most Changeling offspring are Kinain and most Childlings are reincarnated, so it is possible that those eventual new fairies are also born True Fae and kick the baby's soul to Arcadia.

So you don't need even Eldritch Powers, the True Fae my simply be this, True Fae, like any other CtD Changeling, but living in Arcadia and unfettered from human vessels. That way the Lost would be another critter, but still related to the Fae cosmology of the WoD, while True Fae and Kithain would be distinct states of the same beings, basically True Fae exiled to Earth (which is already exactly what they are in CtD).

Now, similar takes can be extended to every CoD splat you want. They are not new versions of WoD splats in the sense most people think when they didn't read both. They're completely new and unrelated takes on the general concepts, and most of them can be parsed without almost no big conceptual change to the other setting as a new splat of their own, and depending on your chronicle they may enrich the setting with new, complementary themes instead of feel like redundancies.

I wouldn't recommend to just throw every CoD splat on your game like that, but just because that would clutter the game for no reason, but if you have a plan that works with that, that'll work perfectly fine.

[Kakost]

CoD rules are plain better than WoD rules, but that's besides the point.

You don't need a lot of adaptation concept-wise for any of those. For CtD + DA: Fae, Changelings are just Fae that went through the Changeling Way and are living in the modern world. Concept-wise they're the same creatures under distinct circumstances and it is perfectly possible that DA style Fae still exist in the Dreaming, you would just have to come up with the mechanics for dealing with the current level of Banality (and you can just borrow the rules for Dark-Kin in the C20 book).

And the Lost are humans transformed by their stay in Arcadia. Not compatible? The first body of a Changeling in CtD sends the human soul to Arcadia. Every Arcadian Sidhe occupies a stolen body whose soul they sent to Arcadia, something they believe to be a blessing, but isn't necessarily from the PoV of those human souls. When CtD's Changelings have children there's also a chance that this child is a new fairy, despite the fact that most Changeling offspring are Kinain and most Childlings are reincarnated, so it is possible that those eventual new fairies are also born True Fae and kick the baby's soul to Arcadia.

So you don't need even Eldritch Powers, the True Fae my simply be this, True Fae, like any other CtD Changeling, but living in Arcadia and unfettered from human vessels. That way the Lost would be another critter, but still related to the Fae cosmology of the WoD, while True Fae and Kithain would be distinct states of the same beings, basically True Fae exiled to Earth (which is already exactly what they are in CtD).

Now, similar takes can be extended to every CoD splat you want. They are not new versions of WoD splats in the sense most people think when they didn't read both. They're completely new and unrelated takes on the general concepts, and most of them can be parsed without almost no big conceptual change to the other setting as a new splat of their own, and depending on your chronicle they may enrich the setting with new, complementary themes instead of feel like redundancies.

I wouldn't recommend to just throw every CoD splat on your game like that, but just because that would clutter the game for no reason, but if you have a plan that works with that, that'll work perfectly fine.

Wow, I loved that idea of the helpless human soul being catapulted to Arcadia to "open way" for the Changelling soul... Thanks! Yes, I'll definetely use that! I'll make the Lost become mortal enemies from the Changellings responsible for their torment... I loved that idea, I'll extend this little quirck of the Sidhe to ALL Changellings - when a Changelling is born, a poor human soul is sent to Arcadia to be tortured by the "True Fae", to become a slave... And I'll have the DA Firstborn and Elementals be the "True Fae agents" on Earth. I'll make an "Arcadia ressurgence", with the Lost finding a breach and beggining to escape, trying to fight the Changellings AND the DA Fae to end this practice. Amazing idea, thanks a lot.

[adambeyoncelowe]

Dark ages Fae is still 100% what changeling was before the sundering(when the old fae left for arcadia and the mysts became so strong that they became a mostly negative force they now refer to as banality).

There was a book that went over what happened, but I'm still trying to look for it.

The TL;DR is that the Old Fae found a way to turn the changelings that had their Fae Soul destroyed through baptism into Myst-nukes in their wars and ended up Severely damaging their home realm. Essentially, the Old Fae are responsible for turning the largely helpful Mysts into a deadly plague of Banality that are killing the remaining changelings on earth.

It's this one: DA: Darkening Sky: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/125594

It contains a story in which the True Fae create the context for CTD to arise.