Demon The Fallen Thread. For is better to Rule in Earth than Serve in Heaven

[DarkExcalibur42]

Thank you for all those points!

I agree with you that the Lore selection is intentionally limited. My take is that the Fallen aren't able to access all the old connections and tools for manipulating Creation; the world and the demons themselves are too broken, too changed, for those to work like they once did. But, I also feel like a small handful of alternative Lore powers and Apocalyptic Form features could be added without hurting the setting, and might be neat elements to help characters stand out. Perhaps the character can choose to learn the "canon" Evocation, or learn the new "alternate" Evocation, but not both.

The Player's Guide offers an entire section on custom-building your apocalyptic form, with a great selection of powers. And yeah, a game could definitely benefit a story to give players additional powers at each point level of a Lore. Another thing I might consider, is once you've hit the end of a campaign and you're literally running the apocalypse may as well take ALL the training wheels off and give people more or less total control over their Lore areas based on how many dots they have in them.

Or, what about a Death or Spirit-based Evocation that was used for helping a soul to "pass on", and it is the Torment version that keeps them from dying? "I FORBID you to leave me!"

That makes a lot of sense!

[Crowley]

Yeah, that was me and I've been working on some new aspects on a google doc version. Your angel idea sounds good. Is it ok if I do my own version with a Lost flock that wants to do something similar?

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

as long as my demon can make a cameo (He is walking through the WoD, trying to help and do what ever he can to keep humanity alive, he doesnt want to exploit their fate but save them rather).

in my game, the angels are only 12 and they cant take a human form (like in the End of Time's book)

as for the Nephilim...im pretty sure that Demons AND earthbounds would pull a truece if these Things were to appear yet again, since they are the mix of torment and humanity in a package made out of madness..so they would be a great foe to the Demons.

Something that represents the Fall in a more Carnal Sense and a Taboo of existance....Now that i think about it, its pretty similar to how The Primogens feel about the new Kindread

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

nothing, the human host feels pleasure.

in my game, depends on how much torment does the demon holds, the blood might be painful to drink. might even drive the vampire to have nightmares or visions.


As for villians, if i dont bad remember, someone in the forums was working in Nephilim (I think it was you Yaoi Huntress Earth). but if im wrong i apologize.

on my game i had the idea of a group of Angels that managed to "Escape" and "Forget" in a way. full angels who use and manipulate humanity into doing their bidding so they can "Reach God" by destroying the world for Her. very influenced by characters like Kaoru Nagisa.

The other villians i had was the Dark Crussade, but rather than a villian was an organization of Wyrm Followers leaded by an Earthbound who wanted to destroy everything and leave the earth for the Childes of The Wyrm

Yeah, that was me and I've been working on some new aspects on a google doc version. Your angel idea sounds good. Is it ok if I do my own version with a Lost flock that wants to do something similar?

[Redford_Blade]

I think that the Lore is purposely limited in its scope on purpose, but I'll at least give you some feedback (though I won't call it expert feedback, at least it's another perspective).

I think the Wind ability sounds really cool actually! The high torment thing seems like something out of a horror movie where the winds are practically whispering around people.

Portals all directly deal with actual portals (doorways), so for the call to hand power.... wouldn't they need to reach into a bag or something for it to work?

Suspend Death seems iffy to me. The Lore of Death all deals with causing death.or predicting the end, so it doesn't seem like it fits. It seems like it might fit more with Lore of the Spirit or Awakening.

Thank you for all those points!

I agree with you that the Lore selection is intentionally limited. My take is that the Fallen aren't able to access all the old connections and tools for manipulating Creation; the world and the demons themselves are too broken, too changed, for those to work like they once did. But, I also feel like a small handful of alternative Lore powers and Apocalyptic Form features could be added without hurting the setting, and might be neat elements to help characters stand out. Perhaps the character can choose to learn the "canon" Evocation, or learn the new "alternate" Evocation, but not both.

I also agree with you regarding Call to Hand. I will definitely specify a requirement of pulling the object from some sort of container or (mundane) portal in the final version.

As for Suspend Death, I admit that it doesn't quite fit with the other powers in the path. I kind of liked how it provided a different take on Death, but I do like your suggestion about it being part of Lore of Spirit instead. It would probably be about Spirit 3 or 4, yes? Either just before Anchor the Soul, or in place of it.

Or, what about a Death or Spirit-based Evocation that was used for helping a soul to "pass on", and it is the Torment version that keeps them from dying? "I FORBID you to leave me!"

It is nice to be able to share these ideas with people who also love Demon.

[Crowley]

Hey, just came by for a moment..Want some interesting inspiration for earthbounds?
Check Mr.B Gone by Clive Barker

[DarkExcalibur42]

If this is serving as our makeshift "general Demon thread", I'd like to get folks' input on a project I've been toying with for a while.

I kinda hope so? It's the only part of this forum I'm actually following, and I'm quite eager to discuss any element of Demon.

I've been trying to come up with a few new or "alternate" Evocations for each of the House Lores. This has proven difficult, though, whether because I am not sure how to expand a given Lore's themes, or because my idea for a new Evocation turns out to be very similar to a Ritual from the Player's Guide.

So, I present three sample ideas for new Evocations, and I ask your help in refining and statting them:

Winds 1 or 2: Listen to the Wind
Low Torment: Conveys sound towards or awayfrom someone (useful for stealth, communication, reconnaisance)
High Torment: Deadens all sound in a zone around the Demon (and perhaps causes paranoia in nearby mortals?)

Portals 3: Call to Hand
Low Torment: pull one of the demon's possessions to them across a great distance
High Torment: damages the item in-transit

Death 3 or 4: Suspend Death
Low Torment: keep dying person from immediately passing on (such as to buy time for an ambulance to arrive)
High Torment: inflicts derangement, or perhaps steals life from others in area (including the Demon)

I think that the Lore is purposely limited in its scope on purpose, but I'll at least give you some feedback (though I won't call it expert feedback, at least it's another perspective).

I think the Wind ability sounds really cool actually! The high torment thing seems like something out of a horror movie where the winds are practically whispering around people.

Portals all directly deal with actual portals (doorways), so for the call to hand power.... wouldn't they need to reach into a bag or something for it to work?

Suspend Death seems iffy to me. The Lore of Death all deals with causing death.or predicting the end, so it doesn't seem like it fits. It seems like it might fit more with Lore of the Spirit or Awakening.

[Redford_Blade]

If this is serving as our makeshift "general Demon thread", I'd like to get folks' input on a project I've been toying with for a while.

I've been trying to come up with a few new or "alternate" Evocations for each of the House Lores. This has proven difficult, though, whether because I am not sure how to expand a given Lore's themes, or because my idea for a new Evocation turns out to be very similar to a Ritual from the Player's Guide.

So, I present three sample ideas for new Evocations, and I ask your help in refining and statting them:

Winds 1 or 2: Listen to the Wind
Low Torment: Conveys sound towards or awayfrom someone (useful for stealth, communication, reconnaisance)
High Torment: Deadens all sound in a zone around the Demon (and perhaps causes paranoia in nearby mortals?)

Portals 3: Call to Hand
Low Torment: pull one of the demon's possessions to them across a great distance
High Torment: damages the item in-transit

Death 3 or 4: Suspend Death
Low Torment: keep dying person from immediately passing on (such as to buy time for an ambulance to arrive)
High Torment: inflicts derangement, or perhaps steals life from others in area (including the Demon)

[David G]

Thanks Mercurial, the demon in question has a charisma and manipulation of 4 each. She only has 3 pots in Lores but is very good at getting what she wants socially. She's starting with girls at school and then using them to get to their parents.

[Mercurial]

Thanks for all the info Crowley, but I have another question. How many pacts can a Demon have at one time. Pacts are listed as backgrounds, and they usually only go to five. But in most of the games that I have played we have ruled that that was for starting characters. Since people like Bill Gates have resources way above 5 and they are normal humans. So would you allow pacts above five or is there some reason not to.

There isn't really any suggestion that there is a limit to how many pacts you can earn. Just have a good social stat and be mindful of what people need. Lots of people wasting away that would do anything to be well. Lots of widows with children would do anything for good health, money, a new mate. And if all else fails you can always offer up the numbers to next weeks winning Lotto if you have Lore of Patterns.

[Dezeroth]

nothing, the human host feels pleasure.

in my game, depends on how much torment does the demon holds, the blood might be painful to drink. might even drive the vampire to have nightmares or visions.


As for villians, if i dont bad remember, someone in the forums was working in Nephilim (I think it was you Yaoi Huntress Earth). but if im wrong i apologize.

on my game i had the idea of a group of Angels that managed to "Escape" and "Forget" in a way. full angels who use and manipulate humanity into doing their bidding so they can "Reach God" by destroying the world for Her. very influenced by characters like Kaoru Nagisa.

The other villians i had was the Dark Crussade, but rather than a villian was an organization of Wyrm Followers leaded by an Earthbound who wanted to destroy everything and leave the earth for the Childes of The Wyrm

I don't know, I might fluff something up depending on the type of demon it is, drinking a devourer might make you more prone to frenzy while drinking a devil may give you an automatic success on charisma or manipulation rolls. I would definately add either angelic visions or demonic nightmares depending on the torment rating at time of blood sucking though

[David G]

Thanks for all the info Crowley, but I have another question. How many pacts can a Demon have at one time. Pacts are listed as backgrounds, and they usually only go to five. But in most of the games that I have played we have ruled that that was for starting characters. Since people like Bill Gates have resources way above 5 and they are normal humans. So would you allow pacts above five or is there some reason not to.

[Crowley]

So what happens if a Vampire drinks from a Demon?

nothing, the human host feels pleasure.

in my game, depends on how much torment does the demon holds, the blood might be painful to drink. might even drive the vampire to have nightmares or visions.


As for villians, if i dont bad remember, someone in the forums was working in Nephilim (I think it was you Yaoi Huntress Earth). but if im wrong i apologize.

on my game i had the idea of a group of Angels that managed to "Escape" and "Forget" in a way. full angels who use and manipulate humanity into doing their bidding so they can "Reach God" by destroying the world for Her. very influenced by characters like Kaoru Nagisa.

The other villians i had was the Dark Crussade, but rather than a villian was an organization of Wyrm Followers leaded by an Earthbound who wanted to destroy everything and leave the earth for the Childes of The Wyrm

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

So what happens if a Vampire drinks from a Demon?

[DarkExcalibur42]

Crowley asked how Werewolf would explain Demon, not how Demon would explain Werewolf.

Yep. That's how they would explain it: wrong. ^_^

They'd probably assume all demons were insane or corrupted wyrm spirits or banes. They look wyrm tainted most of the time when werewolves look at them, so why would you trust anything they said? They're obviously powerful spirits, too. So it makes sense.

[PaladinDemo]

Look at his post when I mentioned the lack of antagonists.