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does anyone when or if there will be a demon the fallen 20th anniversary edition

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  • does anyone when or if there will be a demon the fallen 20th anniversary edition

    demon the fallen is one of my all time favorite rpgs of all time

  • Beriorn
    replied
    Originally posted by MichaelSD View Post
    I am not sure I would like to see one. The setting was wonderful, seldom did I find a setting oozing with so much mood and style. Stolze, Lee and team outdid themselves. The same can not be said for the rules set, which were awfully bad and haphazard. A new edition would require a near complete rewrite of the demon specific rules, which I guess, would way too much work for the small fan base. Just to have a "best of edition", especially with the current rules, is not really worthy to be called Demon the Fallen. But neither would I loose a sleep about if it happens, but I would not buy it for the aforementioned reasons.
    If anything, what Demon needs is a Revised edition, which is funny when you realize when it came out.

    But if anything, I love Demon for what it is: an Aristocrats joke.

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  • MichaelSD
    replied
    Originally posted by the viking anarch View Post
    demon the fallen is one of my all time favorite rpgs of all time
    I am not sure I would like to see one. The setting was wonderful, seldom did I find a setting oozing with so much mood and style. Stolze, Lee and team outdid themselves. The same can not be said for the rules set, which were awfully bad and haphazard. A new edition would require a near complete rewrite of the demon specific rules, which I guess, would way too much work for the small fan base. Just to have a "best of edition", especially with the current rules, is not really worthy to be called Demon the Fallen. But neither would I loose a sleep about if it happens, but I would not buy it for the aforementioned reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aya Tari
    replied
    They can change, but there is no real mechanic for it.
    Last edited by Aya Tari; 08-08-2016, 04:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beriorn
    replied
    True Names change as a Demon changes. The possession of mortals, the growth of their power, the devouring of other Demons... all of that changes them.

    Plus, don't forget that while Demons might have been sent by their masters this does not mean that the masters want to enslave humanity. Remember that the more powerful Demons are parts of the various factions as well, and not all of them are Raveners or the more jerkass Faustians.

    Oh, and from all the stuff I've read elsewhere this mechanic is not enforced anywhere in the rules or something that the various demons described in the lore act upon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Demon Storytellers Companion, p. 43, it says "Then the unthinkable happened. A storm broke across the spirit realms and the walls of the Abyss split asunder. Freedom beckoned after aeons of suffering, but the cracks in the Creator's terrible seals allowed only the weakest of the spirits any hope of escape. These lesser angels were charged by the power of their True Names to find a way to release the rest." That means that Demons are obligated, regardless of their individual desires, to free their compatriots from the Abyss. They cannot avoid their fate, they are bound by their True Names, and even the ones who desire to liberate humankind are required to liberate the Lords of Hell from the Abyss first. Demons are the weakest of the spirits of the Abyss, they are even weaker than the Imps that are summoned by mortal occultists, and they are still powerful enough to frighten younger vampires.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crowley
    replied
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I would rather not have Demon 20th edition. I know that there are plenty of people who disagree with me, but I will never see the appeal of player a character whose central purpose is the enslavement of every human being by the Demon Lords. Even Infernalists usually do not want that fate for the world, they just want to auction off their soul to the highest bidder for some temporal power (like most of the ruling class in any nation).
    maybe he's talking about The Earthbounds?.
    personally, whenever i played i was trying to free humanity from the Triad, believing that humans were perfect enough not to be enslaved and leaded by a giant spider or by outside interference

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I would rather not have Demon 20th edition. I know that there are plenty of people who disagree with me, but I will never see the appeal of player a character whose central purpose is the enslavement of every human being by the Demon Lords. Even Infernalists usually do not want that fate for the world, they just want to auction off their soul to the highest bidder for some temporal power (like most of the ruling class in any nation).
    What are you talking about? Plenty of demons just want to fight God, return to grace, or find Lucifer. Where are you getting this mass enslavement thing from?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aya Tari
    replied
    I would rather not have Demon 20th edition. I know that there are plenty of people who disagree with me, but I will never see the appeal of player a character whose central purpose is the enslavement of every human being by the Demon Lords. Even Infernalists usually do not want that fate for the world, they just want to auction off their soul to the highest bidder for some temporal power (like most of the ruling class in any nation).

    Leave a comment:


  • Beriorn
    replied
    Come to think of it, what would the layout of a Demon20 book be? Looking at the other 20th Anniversary books, I've noted that Vampire20 and Werewolf20 have very similar layouts. The first six chapters are more or less the same: A World of Darkness/Character types/Character Creation/Special powers/Rules/Dramatic Systems. They then get their own things (Morality/Spirit World), followed by the Storytelling chapter. They then both have the Enemies chapter and the misc stuff, but Werewolf has an Allies chapter as well.

    Meanwhile, Mage20 has four chapters of background before going with similar chapters: Charcter types/Character Creaton/Storytelling/Rules/Dramatic Systems/Powers, ending again with an enemies appendix followed by a misc stuff appendix.

    Looking at this I feel that a layout similar to the Vampire and Werewolf layout.

    Book 1: Elohim
    - Chapter 1: A World of Darkness (the background of the game, from Fiat Lux to the escape from the Abyss)
    - Chapter 2: Houses of Darkness (the seven Houses of the Elohim and the five Factions, each explained in a nice double page as well as their take on each other and the Factions. The Factions are all described as well as how they interact with one another)
    Book 2: Fallen
    - Chapter 3: Characters (full explaination on how to build your characters with the Attributes, Abilities, Backgrounds and Virtues)
    - Chapter 4: Lores & Forms (rules on how to use the various Lores as well how Apocalypse Forms work, the basic ones for each of the Lores)
    - Chapter 5: Rules (how to play the game)
    - Chapter 6: Dramatic Systems (you know what this does)
    - Chapter 7: Relics and Rituals (rules for Relics and how to make them as well as Rituals and how to perform them)
    Book 3: Earthbound
    - Chapter 8: Storytelling (how to run the game as a Storyteller)
    - Chapter 9: Pacts and Thralls (how Pacts work, how to find Thralls, rules on how Faith can be gained and how a Storyteller can make Thralls)
    - Chapter 10: Antagonists (rules for the Earthbound and how to make them, as well as rules for demon hunters)
    Appendix 1: Merits & Flaws (speaks for itself)
    Appendix 2: Nature of the Beast (DIY Apocalypse Form rules)

    This should fit pretty much all the rules into a single big tome, 666 pages in length.

    Now, this does mean that a lot of the background stuff won't fit into the core book (and Demon has a LOT of that stuff), so as a stretch goal a nice tome of lore and other optional rules, including the rules for Infernal Courts, the whole business in LA, more specific rules for other supnaturals and so on. Or keep it short and make an equivalent of the Vampire20 Companion.

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    I know this currently flies in the face of canon, but I'd really enjoy seeing some of the options and improvements made in Dark Ages: Devil's Due make their way into Demon 20th. The Rite of the Splintered Soul (I think that's what it was?) made for super interesting characters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beriorn
    replied
    Possibly not, because 20th anniversary Demon would be called D20, and D20 World of Darkness already exists.

    On a more serious note, I can see it happening. While V20, W20 and M20 are more akin to "greatest hits", I reckon that a fair deal of the rules can be fitted into a single book. Filtering out all the lore stuff and putting the rules together you get the following and whether it is aimed at players or storytellers:

    - Core book: Most of the stuff in there. (P, ST)
    - Player's Guide: The merits and flaws, DIY Apocalypse Form, relics and rituals. (P, ST)
    - Storyteller's Comapnion: Rules for supernatural foes. (ST)
    - Earthbound: Rules for building and playing Earthbound. (ST)
    - Houses of the Fallen: More relics and rituals. (P)
    - Damned and Deceived: Rules for Thralls and Thrall games (P, ST)

    With some good formatting, clever writing and filtering out duplicate stuff it can certainly be put into one book.

    But I will never forgive the writers if they do not make the Demon 20 book exactly 666 pages long. Mage had 685 pages or so and that is a HUGE game, so they should be able to fit Demon onto 19 pages less.
    Last edited by Beriorn; 08-07-2016, 02:45 PM.

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  • MichaelSD
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    I would dearly welcome a KOTE 20 Book too

    On demon the fallen, thoughts on new backgrounds that would exist 20 years after their release from their prison?
    I think the Backgrounds (with capital B, like Ally, Contact, Legacy, etc.) are good as they are. Or what did you mean by backgrounds?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    didn't see redtext.. ignore
    Last edited by Lian; 06-01-2016, 09:55 PM.

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    I would dearly welcome a KOTE 20 Book too

    Liked it more then VTM to be honest


    On demon the fallen, thoughts on new backgrounds that would exist 20 years after their release from their prison?

    Leave a comment:

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