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Real World Divination Methods.

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  • Real World Divination Methods.

    A lot of means of divining the Future,Werewolfs Runestones Fetish, Changelings Soothsay, Wraiths Fatalism, call for things, like I-ching, crystal balls, Tarot Cards, and such.

    Would like to get a primer from anyone who knows more on those things, Tarot in particular, so I dont have to just skip to what the Divination reveals... its far more interesting if I can describe in some detail how the divination looks, or such.
    Last edited by Prince of the Night; 04-13-2016, 05:30 PM.

  • #2
    You are better off looking up on line what each card means


    • #3
      Get the book 78 Degrees of Wisdom by Rachel Pollack.
      In brief though, the Tarot is a normal deck of cards with four suits (the Minor Arcana, cups wands swords and coins/pentacles) each of which represents an element (usually Cups=Water/feelings, Wands=Fire/actions, Swords=Air/thoughts and Coins=Earth/body). It has four Court cards rather than 3, the Page Knight Queen & King of each suit.
      Then there's the Major Arcana, the ones with names like Death and the Lovers etc. which form a numerical sequence starting with the Fool at zero (the only Major to survive into the modern deck of playing cards, as the Joker) then the Magician at 1 etc. they represent more significant events or people than the Minor cards do.

      If you want to foreshadow people use Court cards, if you want to shadow significant events use Major Arcana- the Tower means disaster, the Devil means corruption, the Hanged Man means suffering through a difficult time etc.
      Common themes you can use are lots of Sword cards in the reading meaning strife or conflict (esp 10 of Swords) lots of cups meaning emotional entanglement, coins for wealth or success, wands for a quest or a mission. Aces mean beginnings so for example give them the Ace of Wands meaning they'll be given a quest, the King of Pentacles to mean the rich NPC who gives them the quest, the 5 of Wands to show fighting and the Knight of Swords to represent the opponent they'll have to defeat, then the Sun to show success (or the Tower to show defeat...)


      • #4
        For the record, I don't believe that Tarot has any true divinatory power, but they are rather fun to play with. Some folks have seen benefit from using them as a way of looking at their problems from another perspective, as dictated by the cards.

        Using the tarot generally means a lot of memorization because each card means something different. I think rather than rote memorization, a lot of tarot readers rely on visual cues on the cards themselves, so the art style of the deck makes a big difference. Decks like the Mage: The Ascension deck are liable to give extremely negative readings just by the fact that the cards are very bleak. A sunnier looking deck will likewise give more positive readings. The bog standard deck is the Rider-Waite, which is fairly neutral. Most decks are based on the images of the Rider-Waite.

        There are different spreads for how you lay the cards. The position of the card refines the meaning of the card. There is no precise formula that says X card in Y position means Z... You just have to take what you know about the card, take into account the position of the card, as well as what the other cards have been telling you to get at what the cards are trying to say.

        There are lots of different spreads, and some tarot readers even come up with their own. The two most frequent spreads you see are the simple three-card spread, and the more elaborate, but iconic, celtic cross.

        If you have knowledge of astrology that can sometimes play a part, but it's more optional. For example, Major Arcana tend to represent people in your life... if you draw the Chariot, and aren't sure who it is meant to represent, Chariot=Cancer iirc, so if you happen to know a Cancer, it might be referring to him.


        • #5
          If I could give an example?

          "A Dear friend, who loves you, and who you love, will soon unwittingly betray you to your death"

          Is that too specific you think?


          • #6
            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
            If I could give an example?

            "A Dear friend, who loves you, and who you love, will soon unwittingly betray you to your death"

            Is that too specific you think?
            Too specific, but only because divination is usually steeped in symbolism. Maybe that's the interpretation someone would get, but it wouldn't be that clear.

            - If you must be ridiculous, I must ridicule you.
            - Those that can give up essential liberties in exchange for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin


            • #7
              does it sound good for building up paranoia?

              since the caveat "Unwittingly"

              means that powers like Telepathy, will be useless at finding out who will do so.


              • #8
                If you happen to attend Pennsic (or live near Chicago), Dr. Henry Best and the Kuji Kaoni Musashi have fantastic classes on divination.


                • #9
                  Oh to anyone else who is curious on the issue know that I just bought Wraiths Mediums book, and its WELL worth looking through if you want to elaborate on divination, either in changewling Wraith vampire or werewolf.


                  • #10
                    The best is really to look for a good book or a good teacher, but not because it is complex, precisely. It is more because it is broad. Divination is based in "icons" that have each a very broad espectrum of meanings.

                    But to help, I think I'll give an example you can use on your games, then some advice to extrapole:

                    THE SIMPLE CROSS

                    This spread is far simpler to use than the Celtic Cross, but is my personal favorite both for actual readings and for theatrical displays. It will impress without so much trouble as the Celtic. Its composed of five cards: left hand, right hand, head, feet and core of the cross.

                    Start with the left hand, then proceed to the right hand. Those talk about the present. The right hand have an inverted meaning in this reading, that is, it means the opposite of its common read (it doesn't have to be a bad meaning). You can actually invert the card in this position. The head talks about the near future, while the feet talks about how the question will close. The core is the Questioner herself in the context of the reading.

                    It can seem strange and hard at first, but actually isn't so much. You start it all with a question, though your group don't need to know it. The question will make context for the cards to make sense. For starters, just use the Major Arcana, they are the flashy ones, and even in actual readings are the richest in symbols. Then simply look at then and make it up as you feel is right. It isn't such a bad style of reading. Let your gut feeling guide you each time you look at the cards disposed in front of you. Sometimes you'll notice details you didn't before and draw distinct conclusions for the same card. That's just great.

                    You can start right now with Major Arcana, this cross spread, and simply reading whatever you think is right in the images of your deck, considering the question. Then, when you feel ok with it, its just a mater of developing your own spreads. Decide what each position means and the order to put the cards. That will be more than enough for an RPG game, and maybe a start for actual reads if you want to. If you want to go further, just read as much as you can, so you broad ever more your understanding of the symbols in each arcana.

                    Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.


                    • #11
                      thank you montepamas for your detailed answer.

                      Also on divination, im trying to work out how to answer the Changeling Cantrip Omen... coming up right now in my game.


                      • #12
                        Ascension and Awakening has Tarot decks. Not sure if Ascension comes with a book, the book for Awakening's Tarot deck is seperate. Some decks you get at some known bookstores and new age shops should come with a book. If the deck box looks about book sized, it has one.

                        Onyx Path Kickstarters I back.
                        W20, MtC, CB20, DtD, MtAs20, BotW20, Wraith 20th.


                        • #13
                          There are a near infinite number of card divination systems in existence. From an objective point of view, they are best considered to be a way for your unconscious mind to communicate with your conscious mind. The human brain excels at forecasting, it constantly runs prediction scenarios throughout the day, and they run from one second predictions to one year predictions, though the accuracy drops off quickly. The conscious mind, however, is much more limited than the unconscious mind, as it is primary meant to facilitate language and social interaction.


                          • #14
                            Fuck tarot, real seers and prophets use Estrucan haruspicy.

                            The liver is a surprisingly wise organ.


                            • #15
                              does this sound like a good way to indicate an unseelie Sidhes Court with 2 successes on Omen

                              "she is standing with dignity amidst a winter storm"