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  • Crazy Idea

    There's a war going.

    You hire a bunch of human gangers/mercs, give them a cannon, charged with cold iron shrapnel and ask them to fire it into the charging army of changelings. Sidhe, for example.

    What happens next?

    My guess, it should be super-deadly, especially if you got more than one.

    But political implications, as well as military, is another matter entirely. And magical implication, too. I'm not even sure, that Dreaming would not simply freak out, like when that Crowbar Incident happened.

    Discuss.



  • #2
    If I were the ST, the changeling in question would suffer a serious Banality trigger — probably a dot of Banality for every changeling that dies from the cold iron cannon. Depending on the circumstances, the changeling's faerie soul might even break and s/he'd become a dauntain. I don't think there'd be quite as dramatic a result as trying to bring cold iron into the Dreaming, but if enough changelings die from cold iron at once, the battlefield would almost certainly bear metaphysical scars from the conflict. If there are truly massive casualties, I'd raise the ambient Banality of the area to make it dangerous for Kithain to spend much time there. I'd also borrow a bit from DA: Darkening Sky's Friar's Cross and make Unleashing no longer work there.

    As far as political implications go, the changeling would almost certainly find her/himself hunted by both the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. The Thallain might offer the changeling sanctuary, but they'd have their own agenda. If s/he accepts, the changeling would become their pawn.

    Militarily, the changeling in question might win the battle, but in doing so, s/he would hand a much greater victory to the enemy of all fae.
    Last edited by PookaKnight; 01-09-2017, 10:42 AM.


    Charlie Cantrell
    Onyx Path Freelancer
    Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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    • #3
      I'm interest, whether inidirect murder will actually bear any consequences for changeling, as direct does. If changeling officers suffer Banality loss from every death, that happened under their command, that would mean there can be no changeling generals afterwards, as war means a deaths, even with such license as chimerical death.

      I imagine, considering weigth of the crime, sufficiently morivated anti-hero or Shadow Court themselves can do that, knowingly.

      Would someone repeat and implement such weaponry? Or maybe it'll be assembled and clanked loudly, but never used, like nuclear weapons? Heavily supervised (much more, than normally)?

      I always wondered, why nockers didn't use something like that against Sidhe?.. Even after factoring in for magic, they fought on home terrain with knowledge Sidhe didn't have access to.

      Could weaponry like that used in any of the future wars of Concordia? Despite fear and taboo?


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      • #4
        Changeling: The Dreaming has several different kinds of death, some of them are more permanent than others.

        Death by cold iron isn't just murder. It's the annihilation of a piece of the Dreaming. A changeling might be able to justify or rationalize it in their own mind, such as ending a Lost One or a Dauntain, but no matter the reason, it is always the destruction of a piece of the Dreaming and a victory for Banality. Just because the changeling didn't physically light the fuse, doesn't mean they didn't knowingly and willfully orchestrate the deaths by cold iron. In doing so, they allowed Banality to claim part of their soul.

        Originally posted by Firkraag View Post
        Would someone repeat and implement such weaponry? Or maybe it'll be assembled and clanked loudly, but never used, like nuclear weapons? Heavily supervised (much more, than normally)?
        Check out DA: Darkening Sky. That's basically what led to the Shattering. The fae have already done irreparable damage to the two worlds and nearly ended their own existence. A repeat of a conflict on the scale of the War of Courts would probably obliterate the Dreaming once and for all.


        Charlie Cantrell
        Onyx Path Freelancer
        Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

        Comment


        • #5
          Blasted! Forum ate my respons^W Nope, weird, it didn't. UPD: I re-opened this page several times, there was no my post. Weird.

          I was thinking, that sufficiently motivated anti-hero and Shadow Court member can do such atrocity even when fully realizing the potential consequences (including judgement and scorn of other kithains), which in turn would demand even more tragic aftermath.

          I mean, chimerical death provides great artistic licence in terms of what and what cannot be done within a setting, but while changeling war over Concordia were mostly bloodless (with exception for one crazy night), the result of this war was very real: an occupation of the Concordia by Sidhe. King David's actions to smooth things out are commendable, but "War in Concordia" proves them to be insufficient...

          I was always wondering, why no one, including nockers didn't use weaponry such as this, one to throw off Sidhe' conquest? To stay, commoners are here to stay. In terms of mutual hatred and friendship it would've been pretty much the same setting, except for Camarilla/Sabbath geopolitics. Commoners had the advantage of home field, knowledge and Banality (however unlikely ally, but still) on their side. Sidhe's arrogance alone may have been their undoing. Alas, it wasn't what happened.

          What was that? Fear? Taboo? Unwillingness to win at all costs?
          Last edited by Firkraag; 01-09-2017, 11:53 AM.


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          • #6
            As I said above, the Kithain have already been down that road once. The Dreaming and all fae life is hanging by a thread because of it. If that path is ever taken again, there will probably be no more Dreaming.


            Charlie Cantrell
            Onyx Path Freelancer
            Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
              Death by cold iron isn't just murder. It's the annihilation of a piece of the Dreaming. A changeling might be able to justify or rationalize it in their own mind, such as ending a Lost One or a Dauntain, but no matter the reason, it is always the destruction of a piece of the Dreaming and a victory for Banality. Just because the changeling didn't physically light the fuse, doesn't mean they didn't knowingly and willfully orchestrate the deaths by cold iron. In doing so, they allowed Banality to claim part of their soul.
              Does that mean, that whoever ordered to provoke and anyone who helped them to execute orders to start Night of Iron Knives - immediately evaporated (in chimerical sense - Banality feedback for so many victims should be strong enough to threaten them with complete Undoing) afterwards?

              Or is it just your interpretation?
              Last edited by Firkraag; 01-09-2017, 12:08 PM.


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              • #8
                The souls of the perpetrators of the Night of Iron Knives almost certainly bear the scars of their deeds.


                Charlie Cantrell
                Onyx Path Freelancer
                Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's not as bad as certain death. They may even wear those, as sorta badges of honor.

                  There's even whole Judgement scenario, revolving around seting up a controllable Winter with Shadow Court on the throne.

                  Even if the other scenarios were true (some of them make Eternal Winter even less of an issue), SC certainly don't give a damn about collaterals.

                  Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
                  Check out DA: Darkening Sky. That's basically what led to the Shattering. The fae have already done irreparable damage to the two worlds and nearly ended their own existence. A repeat of a conflict on the scale of the War of Courts would probably obliterate the Dreaming once and for all.
                  I thought DA: Fae and C:tD are completely different settings? I mean those had two different contunuities with different cosmologies and everything, weren't they? *confused*
                  Last edited by Firkraag; 01-09-2017, 01:21 PM.


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                  • #10
                    DA: Fae was definitely a reference for one of my sections in C20 and another C20 project I'm working on


                    Charlie Cantrell
                    Onyx Path Freelancer
                    Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post
                      DA: Fae was definitely a reference for one of my sections in C20 and another C20 project I'm working on
                      Grat! <3 <3 <3

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                      • #12
                        Back on topic.

                        Because of these stated dangers, consequences and costs this crazy idea seems like a very good dramatic move for some chronicles.

                        Though, if I were Sidhe I'd keep an eye on suspicious iron shipments.


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                        • #13
                          I think there's something important missing in your whole calculus from the beginning. Forget the cold iron for a moment, you're still talking about murdering a bunch of people with a canon. That level of violence isn't the norm for Changeling society or most Changeling games in my experience. Part of what is interesting about Changeling is that is has several options for resolving violence that don't have to include lethal force, fitting when you think about the fairy tale veneer that their world has. This isn't to say that acts of shocking violence and murder can't or shouldn't happen in Changeling, but that the escalation of getting there should be meaningful and the consequences of it should be appropriately tragic and horrifying.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
                            I think there's something important missing in your whole calculus from the beginning. Forget the cold iron for a moment, you're still talking about murdering a bunch of people with a canon. That level of violence isn't the norm for Changeling society or most Changeling games in my experience. Part of what is interesting about Changeling is that is has several options for resolving violence that don't have to include lethal force, fitting when you think about the fairy tale veneer that their world has. This isn't to say that acts of shocking violence and murder can't or shouldn't happen in Changeling, but that the escalation of getting there should be meaningful and the consequences of it should be appropriately tragic and horrifying.
                            Imagine, that eldritch abominations, with mindnumbingly stunning looks and enchantingly sweet voices, wrapped in best garments and armed with mind raping magics, they used with ease from the times immemorial; Kings and warlords, who had sworn to protect your people and then betrayed everyone, betrayed you to run away, suddenly appear out of Mists six hundred years after, as if nothing had happened; Then they attack your leaders, starting a march to enslave you and your breathen into their backwards culture, to destroy all you've built and take all you had left, making you into a maid, court jester or something.

                            Dreaming doesn't punish tortures, slavery and racism, only oathbreaking and murder. If you'd look at Sidhe's Frailties in Far Dreaming and deeper, you'll see that they are conditioned to not empathize and care about Commoners beside the word of their Oaths.


                            ​It's basically apocalyptic plot for Changeling: the Lost!

                            We know, that it isn't entirely correct and with a minimal effort you can spin the similar tale for nobility (it's just how war propaganda works [and everyone uses it]), but if you're a commoner and you have good reason to believe that, what price is too high to stop such monsters?

                            I'm not serious, just trying to immerse you to think, how far-fetched (or not) it can be sor someone to commit such an atrocity, as I suggested. There're a lot of bad blood between Nobles and commoners. And "War in Concordia" is a thing.
                            Last edited by Firkraag; 01-09-2017, 05:46 PM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firkraag View Post
                              There's a war going.

                              You hire a bunch of human gangers/mercs, give them a cannon, charged with cold iron shrapnel and ask them to fire it into the charging army of changelings. Sidhe, for example.

                              What happens next?

                              .
                              Ignoring the whole discussion on Cold Iron and the effects on the Dreaming. The situation gets on the 24 news channels because "Gang uses cannon" is crazy news. You get all sorts of big time government agencies checking in because "that sounds like an act of terrorism" and if you're in a crossover game say hello to the Men in Black.


                              Seriously a cannon shooting cold iron scrap metal as a mass of random people even in the WOD is going to be serious on the WTF.

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