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Are Changelings Powerful?

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  • Are Changelings Powerful?

    I was wondering how powerful people thought that Changelings were? While Cantrips are limited by Banality and Glamour, the ability of Changelings to bring the Dreaming into the real world, through the use Calling Upon the Wyrd can potentially be quite powerful. Chimerical nuclear weapons exist within the Dreaming, created from the nightmares of the Cold War, and Changelings could potentially take chimerical nuclear weapons from the Dreaming, Call Upon the Wyrd, and detonate the chimerical nuclear weapon with real effects. The Mists would not even have to rewrite the memories of the survivors, as there is nothing particular mystical about a nuclear weapon going off.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I was wondering how powerful people thought that Changelings were? While Cantrips are limited by Banality and Glamour, the ability of Changelings to bring the Dreaming into the real world, through the use Calling Upon the Wyrd can potentially be quite powerful. Chimerical nuclear weapons exist within the Dreaming, created from the nightmares of the Cold War, and Changelings could potentially take chimerical nuclear weapons from the Dreaming, Call Upon the Wyrd, and detonate the chimerical nuclear weapon with real effects. The Mists would not even have to rewrite the memories of the survivors, as there is nothing particular mystical about a nuclear weapon going off.
    Changelings have alot of options to be out of context problems for things. They don't have as good a defense against their banes as other types

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    • #3
      Hm, how much chaos can Changelings occur in other games? Of course, if a Changeling has Chimera 5 and purchases a Mecha with a sapient AI, I imagine that they could cause a whole lot of problems when they Call in the Wyrd.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
        Hm, how much chaos can Changelings occur in other games? Of course, if a Changeling has Chimera 5 and purchases a Mecha with a sapient AI, I imagine that they could cause a whole lot of problems when they Call in the Wyrd.

        depends how much glamour there is to go around. with Enough glamour you can drop Fair is Foul on a whole Vampiric court or turn someone into a lawn chair with Naming

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        • #5
          If you have Metamorphosis 5 and some free Glamour to spare, you can do something quite nasty.

          I think, streangth of thу fae magic isn't what they can do to others, but what can they to themselves (the lesser your banality is, the easier to cast a cantrip. Yourself and other kithains are priority targets). And this claim multiplies for higher levels of Scene realm. No other supernatural kind can do such a large scale buffs with so little effort. Afterwards your changeling army has to call upon Wyrd successfully to do any real damage, but you get the point.


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          • #6
            Changellings are tough, and calling the Wyrd is a nightmare (literally on many occasions). That option that thay have makes them dangerous critters.

            And, if you take a look at DA FAE, those are ridiculous demigods...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Karlgust View Post
              Changellings are tough, and calling the Wyrd is a nightmare (literally on many occasions). That option that thay have makes them dangerous critters.

              And, if you take a look at DA FAE, those are ridiculous demigods...
              C20 is allowing them to unleash Arts, too, so while they might not be able to fry every vampire in the region, I'd imagine that they pack a heftier punch than Kithain did in prior editions, at the cost of losing any control over what they're doing (I think?).

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              • #8
                Bare in mind also the raw power of the Mists. A Vampire CAN'T throw their full weight around without Masquerade issues. Even the Delerium won't cover up serious throw downs for Fera but the Mists you can go completely crazy and not get caught.

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                • #9
                  Honestly far more than their Arts its the Realms a Changeling has that really determines the scope of their power. You can be stacked with high level Arts and still find yourself handcuffed by not being able to influence vast categories of Realms. Alternatively with a few simple Arts and a broad suite of Realms you can create a lot of versatile, headache-inducing, and difficult to counter effects.

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                  • #10
                    If we pass on the clunky system, at low level the changeling can be really good at buffing / debuffing & group buffing / debuffing, and at higher level of Art, their power are on a higher potential scale than Vampire and can be quite devastating.

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                    • #11
                      So, are Changelings the most underestimated supernatural entity in cWoD then?

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                      • #12
                        I'd say yes, they are underestimated though C20 might change a lot of things, both on their actual power levle & the way they are perceived in regards to the other splats.

                        The main drawbacks in regards to other is the lack of base ability that strengthen their fighting potential (like blood buff or crinos form), lack of innate healing, and no mechanic to soak aggravated as there was no revised edition.

                        As for the bonus, they are too many to do a complete list, but the mist, some of the kith birthright, the Nockers chimera, the Arts, and the way they can so easily affect multiple targets are way overlooked.

                        Some example of how powerful arts are:
                        Wayfare:
                        At 2, quicksilver allows to get multiple action, depending on success, and with scene potentially on your whole group. Could easily lead to a group having 3 action in a given turn, and contrarily to Celerity & such, the text doesn't state that you can't use Arts in these extra action (usable from chaacter creation)

                        Legerdemain:
                        At 2 ensnare inflict 3 damage per success OR ensare the target, which is great damage (way too good actually) or a realy good CC tool
                        5 is basically what Chimerstry always wanted to be and even more creating a chimeric illusion that can act according to what the maker wanted without any order and even become a free willed chimera if forgotten ( plus with calling the wyrd, you could destroy a bunch of vampire with a chimerical sun, though they might "just" fall in torpor

                        Primal
                        at 2 you summon some element, quantity depending on succes, so you can basically make fire rain on your enemy (though that one is one of the clunkiest in it's writing for realm use IMO)
                        at 3 you can bff your group with extra health level
                        at 5 you can take any form from your neighbour, to a house cat or a dragon with the according stats but none of the supernatural power (if I remeber correctly, Metamorphosis Art gives you the power)

                        Soothsay
                        at 2 reduce / increase difficulties of one roll, depending on success potentially on the whole group again


                        Etc etc

                        They are weaker than Mage powers, but also far cheaper in term of exp, without risk of paradox and if you do wht it takes, lesser difficulties

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                        • #13
                          And then you add the stuff concerning Calling the Wyrd, where they can bring literally anything from the Dreaming that they desire, regardless of the nature of the object or creature. They could potentially have a pet chimerical Rancor (which I would personally make Chimera 5), which they can easily make real for a scene with one point of Willpower, one point of Glamour, and a success on a Willpower roll (difficulty equal to the Changeling's Glamour).

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                          • #14

                            Originally posted by Lian View Post
                            Bare in mind also the raw power of the Mists. A Vampire CAN'T throw their full weight around without Masquerade issues. Even the Delerium won't cover up serious throw downs for Fera but the Mists you can go completely crazy and not get caught.
                            Well... it was said, that if Changeling would want to turn into full scale Godzilla or something like that, he might find himself amassing a lot of shiny Banality on their pants. And beingcaught flying, like with chimera or cantrip or treasure is legitimate way to get yourself somewhere in the Far Dreaming.

                            Sadly, Mists work both ways and protect mundies as much, as they do fae.

                            Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
                            The main drawbacks in regards to other is the lack of base ability that strengthen their fighting potential (like blood buff or crinos form)
                            I can agree, that Remembrance Background is not a base ability, but honestly, why wouldn't you take it?

                            Dragon's Ire bonus dice could be used on any rolls in combat, either defensive of offensive. You get up to 5 dice in either Melee or Shoot, and then Dodge or parry with Melee (even if you otherwise have to split your dice pool [but honestly, we just used revised combat]).
                            Last edited by Firkraag; 01-29-2017, 03:20 PM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              And then you add the stuff concerning Calling the Wyrd, where they can bring literally anything from the Dreaming that they desire, regardless of the nature of the object or creature. They could potentially have a pet chimerical Rancor (which I would personally make Chimera 5), which they can easily make real for a scene with one point of Willpower, one point of Glamour, and a success on a Willpower roll (difficulty equal to the Changeling's Glamour).
                              Forget about the Rancor or chimerical nukes... Call in a Death Star from the Dreaming

                              The "good" folk are powerful. Very, very powerful. They are underastimated by players for not having soaking for aggr. But if they get the chimerical version of ironman's suit...

                              The reason they are underated on the scenario is: the mists; others won't remember how awesome they are; and their kryptonitas, both banality and excessive glamour.

                              I dare to say that the risks of being imbalanced for changellings, risking losing one self to Bedlam or to Banality, is in fact WORSE than the paradox to mages. I mean, Paradox is bad... But if you can sit back and relax for a while, it's fine. But banality, once it turns permanent... It stays there. And if you only care about banality, you also risk Bedlam. Changellings, for that reason, cant keep using batllecuisers above cities all the time, because they'll end up crazy or lost to the Dreaming. That's the reason why they aren't a real concern.

                              But others mess with them at their own peril

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