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Sorcerers in Changeling

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  • Aya Tari
    started a topic Sorcerers in Changeling

    Sorcerers in Changeling

    So, I was wondering how you would treat Sorcerer in Changeling? I was thinking that base Banality would depend on the Numina Affinity. Sorcerers with the Mythic Affinity would have Banality 4, the Psychic Affinity would have Banality 6, and the Technological Affinity would have Banality 8. Instead of Seemings, Sorcerers with the Fae Blood Merit (Hedge Wizard Handbook, pp. 67-68) would have a Banality 2/Glamour 4 if they have the Mythic Affinity, Banality 3/Glamour 3 if they have the Psychic Affinity, and Banality 4/Glamour 2 if they have the Technological Affinity (they would all start with Willpower 5, just like any other Sorcerer).

  • Bluecho
    replied
    My opinion on Sorcery and other Splats is that it's usually not a big deal, all things considered. A character who spends XP on advancing them is also NOT spending those XPs on their own native powers.

    The lone exceptions to this, I reserve for Vampires and Mages, but each for different reasons.

    Vampires, because the way I see it, when a mortal Sorcerer teaches her methods to a vampire, that vampire's eventual grasp of those methods will be learned AS Thaumaturgy (or whatever style of blood magic). And the mortal Sorcerer learning magic from a vampire will learn Thaumaturgy (or whatever) as Paths of mortal Sorcery (though the character may also need to take the Blood Magic flaw). Sorcery and Blood Sorcery is analogous, though they may require effort to translate between their respective conditions. The exact nature of their Paths and Rituals may change...or maybe they won't, if the Storyteller decides to just transfer them 1 to 1. Even if not, there are several points of obvious parallel. Only those Paths and Rituals specifically tailored to the mortal or vampiric condition would fail to translate, and then only in those cases where the magician herself was the subject of said powers. Even parts of certain Paths may be transferable anyway, in the form of Rituals (Path of Blood 1 is just about gathering information about blood/Vitae through touch; it could easily be made into a Ritual by a mortal who specializes in dealing with vampires). The exact mechanics of the powers matter less than their overall themes, and on the Practice used to bring them about.

    Speaking of Focus, this applies to Mages. To me, Mages can't do magic except through Spheres (or Minor Spheres, or Foundation and Pillars). Their Awakened state causes them to translate magical praxis into Dynamic forms, unconsciously. The Avatar reweaves the Tapestry as a matter of course. So if a Mage learned from a Sorcerer (as many do), they'd naturally translate the effects into knowledge of the Spheres. The reverse occurs as well, where a Sorcerer won't understand everything a Mage had to teach her, but what she could do would be learned as Paths and Rituals.

    The reason I gravitate towards this is so as not to give Mages a free means of circumventing Paradox. Undermines the whole trade-off between Awakened and unAwakened magic.

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  • Lian
    replied
    Its my opinion that if you are a master swordsman as a fae and get undone you aren't going to have a mortal life that has you remember you are awesome with a sword. Now should it come up you'll be some sort of unnatural protegy apparently, Mechanicswise it would still be "on the sheet" but I wouldn't let them use it proactively. Similar situation for sorcery.

    They would forget they were a sorcerer since there's no "my mundane sorcerer life" but it would theoretically be on their sheet and could be accidentally rediscovered.

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  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Nay, in my perspective. (We're discussing a thing which is even non-existent in our fantasy world.)

    Experiences are tied to the mundane shelf, remains. Paths don't have any relation to the Fae Self. The Mists' effect doesn't depend on what the ex-Changeling belives. It doesn't follow paradigms and doesn't force normalcy. The effect depends on the memories' links.

    An example about the fencing: If he had fencing courses during his university years, he'd retain the *knowledge* that he can fence. If he was educated totaly in a freehold, he'd loose the memory. If both applies, he'd know that he have some experience with swords, and would be suprriesed if ever draw one. He'd be much more skilled than he'd remember.

    But if a ST'd rule thet the Paths are an option for Changelings, she should come out with the exact rules.


    Note: About sorcery and interoperability: Sorcery is also a no-no for vamps. (they have Thaum.), Wraiths , Changers (except Kitsune and the cats, and can only bought via a 7. point merit), Demons, Imbued, Kindred of the East.
    It's a power reserved (usually) for sidekicks (mortals, dhampyrs, dhampirs, Kinfolk, Kinain).

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  • Lian
    replied
    I'm going to argue the other way around. While Paths aren't "of the Dreaming" just like an undone fae is going to forget all about that fencing skill they had since they don't believe its a part of them same with Paths.

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  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Ok, I didn't want to antagonize. I'm misunderstood because of my red cap. Your game, your cans, your worms.

    About the question: The Paths would remain, because it's not tied to the Fae Soul. Also the powers of Hedge Magic doesn't have any affect on Banality, so it would be hight as Mt. Rheasilvia.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
    It's stated in Sorcerer Revised, that Changelings are unable to learn Hedge Magic.

    Also it's better not to let players pick powers from different lines because it's the craft of cheesemakers.
    Revised also has a section about why not let anyone learn sorcery if you want. And that is what I am talking about. And Sorcerer is a metaline originally made to kind of fit in everywhere. I am specifically saying what if I let changelings learn sorcery, I am not asking for permission I am stating a fact of a particular houserule and asking what would the consequences be when they are undone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    It's stated in Sorcerer Revised, that Changelings are unable to learn Hedge Magic.

    Also it's better not to let players pick powers from different lines because it's the craft of cheesemakers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    So I was thinking, particularly since I want to have sorcerers in my game, what if I allow Changelings to learn Sorcery in my games. It being say maybe something True Fae can't learn but Changelings being both human and fae they can learn Arts and Sorcery. Arts are way stronger so no real worries about balance. But my big question is when a changeling becomes undone, would they forget mortal sorcery and remember only mundane mortal knowledge? Or would they just be a Banal Sorcerer?

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  • FallenEco
    replied
    "Winter isn't here yet. The Long Summer has caused a drought in the Dreaming but Autumn may have finally begun. The days are colder and the nights are longer and fear is finally displacing the apathy that was once hope. You silly* little ones have forgotten that the wheel turns for a reason. Seasons change so that life goes on and begins anew. The Winter will be long and hard, even appearing to be endless; it must be to balance the Long Summer, so that hope, courage and the like are new again.
    It is your doings that caused the hardships of the retreat and the absence. We simply trying to balance the scales and restore what was once lost." - Dame Helena, House Balor

    * that is how it is pronounced with her accent; the word is spelt Seelie

    Leave a comment:


  • Kendaan
    replied
    I'd rather say, it's suppose to happen, prophecies had been wrong before, it could be that Winter is already here & that it is not necessarily endless.

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  • Firkraag
    replied
    Endless Winter is a cosmic state of the universe. It happens, it cannot be touched. But mad changeling probably can help to kickstart it to destroy all fae, changelings included.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post

    Raw Glamour doesn't care one way or the other. That being said, certain things in the Dreaming are more solid and persistent than others because they have been around much longer and have gained a certain amount of weight and inertia. Mars as a god is a powerful figure in the Dreaming. Mars as a place is still fragile and fleeting, and probably hasn't coalesced into a single dream yet. If current trends continue (and the Endless Winter doesn't destroy the Dreaming first), the two's status in the Dreaming will eventually reverse, but Mars as a place still has a lot of growing to do before it displaces Mars as a god.

    As for the OP's question, I'd treat a sorcerer like any other mortal if it's an NPC — base Banality of 7. I might drop it down to 6 six since they break with mundane reality, and then adjust from there based on the character's personality and what sort of role I wanted to the character to play in the story. If it's a PC in a Changeling: The Dreaming game, I'd using the rules for Kinain or Enchanted from C20, and let the player buy numina with bonus points. If it's a PC for a non-changeling primary game, I'd have the player make a sorcerer as following the Sorcerer book, and let them take the Fae Blooded merit from which ever game-line is primary.
    Is the Endless Winter something a changeling can see and touch, something concrete. Or is it more like the feeling of fun and joy slowly persihing? Can an evil changeling use it to attack others?

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  • PookaKnight
    replied
    Originally posted by EvilTyger View Post
    I never did like the idea that dreaming about being the first human on Mars somehow isn't as good as dreaming about pink unicorns.
    Raw Glamour doesn't care one way or the other. That being said, certain things in the Dreaming are more solid and persistent than others because they have been around much longer and have gained a certain amount of weight and inertia. Mars as a god is a powerful figure in the Dreaming. Mars as a place is still fragile and fleeting, and probably hasn't coalesced into a single dream yet. If current trends continue (and the Endless Winter doesn't destroy the Dreaming first), the two's status in the Dreaming will eventually reverse, but Mars as a place still has a lot of growing to do before it displaces Mars as a god.

    As for the OP's question, I'd treat a sorcerer like any other mortal if it's an NPC — base Banality of 7. I might drop it down to 6 six since they break with mundane reality, and then adjust from there based on the character's personality and what sort of role I wanted to the character to play in the story. If it's a PC in a Changeling: The Dreaming game, I'd using the rules for Kinain or Enchanted from C20, and let the player buy numina with bonus points. If it's a PC for a non-changeling primary game, I'd have the player make a sorcerer as following the Sorcerer book, and let them take the Fae Blooded merit from which ever game-line is primary.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Why would it not be as good? I think that science fiction is as rich a source of dreams as fantasy or horror. I just think Technocratic Sorcerers are more banal than other Sorcerers.

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