Changing Banality

[Aya Tari]

In another discussion, someone mentioned that Banality was a mess, and I was wondering how it could be changed to become something useful (Banality should have a therapeutic effects as well as a harmful effects). I was thinking about adding the following uses to Banality:

1) Changelings may spend one point of temporary Banality to give Chimera reality for a scene (the effects would be identical to the Wyrd Rede). Whenever Changelings spend a temporary point of Banality to give Chimera reality for a scene, the Changeling loses one point of temporary Glamour as the Dreaming demands a balance of payments.

2) Changelings may sacrifice one level of permanent Banality to give Chimera permanent reality (making them the equivalent of Changelings). Chimera that gain permanent reality gain a mortal seeming, a fae mien, the glamour abilities of Changelings (Calling the Wyrd, Dragon's Ire, Epiphany, etc), and may learn Arts and Realms. Whenever Changelings sacrifice a permanent level of Banality to give Chimera permanent reality, the Changeling sacrifices one level of permanent Glamour as the Dreaming demands a balance of payments.

What do you think?

[Caitiff Primogen]

That doesn't really make much sense from my viewpoint. Why would you be channeling Banality to strengthen Chimera when Banality is anathema to Chimera?

[Aya Tari]

It is more of transforming rather than strengthening. Banality anchors them to to Autumn World, temporarily in the case of temporary points of Banality and permanently in the case of permanent points of Banality.

[Caitiff Primogen]

So spending the Banality is more representative of losing it as a result of doing something that further embracing Dreaming? If that's the case it makes more sense thematically but I don't think its a great idea mechanically, since even with the Glamour trade off you're still basically letting players eject Banality by generating a useful effect they'd probably want to do anyway.

[Kendaan]

Ok giving up voluntarily permanent banality is a bad idea, why would any changeling have more than banality 1?
Even more so if you can make your chimera friends real

Banality does have a few advantages:
-Help against Bedlam
-Help to keep you anchored in the real world (Changeling are sadly not true fae, too much dreaming is not much better than too much banality)
-Countermagic (at least against Mages, maybe also sorcerers & others)

Autumn's People had other things but I don't have it with me (living overseas...)

As to Banality being a mess I kinda remember seeing PookaKnight mentioning it was being redefined to be more coherent in C20

[Aya Tari]

Well, the associated cost in temporary/permanent Glamour would be a problem.

[Caitiff Primogen]

Well, the associated cost in temporary/permanent Glamour would be a problem.

I just don't think giving Changelings the ability to reduce Banality by gaining a benefit that is incredibly powerful in and of itself is really offset by that. You should also probably clarify how you're conceiving of "permanant Glamour." Is this something they can buy back with XP or is it something that can never be regained?

[Kendaan]

Well seeing that raising permanent Glamour cost current lvl x2, unless you change the xp chart it's definitely not that much of a disadvantage for reducing what is supposed to be the bane of the Changeling

[Aya Tari]

You can get rid of temporary points of Banality by spending temporary points of Glamour, so I am not really understanding the imbalance here.

[Kendaan]

It's not exactly by spending, it's when gaining, that's an important difference.

Glamour is not like blood for Vampires, it's more like Gnosis for Werewolves, as per the rules it's not something that easy to come by, so when you have the opportunity to win back some, you have to chose either to refill your pool or get rid of some of that banality.

Depending on the situations you find yourself into you might get trapped into gaining some permanent Banality point (especially for Sidhes)

On of the main concept of the game is the slow descent into Banality, being able to get rid of it like that really make it non threatening, especially if you get a boon for it.

I could imagine Childling characters trying as hard as possible to get a 2nd point of permanent banality to be able to trade in for thei Imaginaly friend to become more real, that kinda ruin the original purpose.

Though as always, if it's fine for your game all is fair ^_^

[Aya Tari]

What changes would you like for Banality?

[Kendaan]

Well it needs to be more clearly defined, than science/ageing/work is baaaddddd, I havn't read how it was actually discribed in a while I have to admit

[Lian]

You can get rid of temporary points of Banality by spending temporary points of Glamour, so I am not really understanding the imbalance here.

Its like being able to spend blood to buff your pool for Humanity degenerations. Its not just completely broken its nonsensical.

[Aya Tari]

Well, the rules allow you to spend Glamour to burn away Banality. Think of it as chaos destabilizing order if you want (or Wyld overwhelming Weaver).

[Kendaan]

But only temporary Banality, there is no way (except evocation of potential epic quest of epic proportion for the Dreaming/Kithains) that reduce permanent banality (as far as I remember)

Let's say the character got captured by Autumn people to get "cured" in an asylum (or infiltrate said asylum to save other Changelings).

He is going to accrue banality really fast (especially Sidhe), and will have to chose between keeping is glamour to help the escape/rescue or using it to limit the gain in Banality before he gains a permanent dot.

If he can just get rid of the permanent banality afterward, you take out a good chunk of what it makes for a good story.