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  • #31
    Actually reading Thallain I have a question. If Thallain are Nightmare-Fae why are the Redcaps and in a lesser measure the Sluaghs not Thallain?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ganonso View Post
      Actually reading Thallain I have a question. If Thallain are Nightmare-Fae why are the Redcaps and in a lesser measure the Sluaghs not Thallain?
      Thallain are Fomorian. Redcaps and sluagh are Tuathan. They're from different Dreams.


      Maggie Carroll
      Onyx Path Freelancer & Developer
      Working On: Book of Freeholds
      Worked On: V20 TMR, Demon STG, C20, Conquering Heroes, Building A Legend

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      • #33
        Ok something I hadn't read

        ne"> Beginning with the Black Plague, periodic horrors of human
        history caused Dark Glamour to infuse the ancient Fomorian Trods
        with enough power to briefl pierce the Silver Ban, allowing small
        bands of Thallain to return. Any time humanity collectively gave
        in to despair — the conquest and plagues of the Native Americans,
        the African slave trade, the Chinese opium trade, the French
        Revolution, and so many others — a few more Thallain found
        their way to Earth. They called the events Tarraroms

        What the hell did the French Revolution did to you? An exemple of humanity giving into despair? The overcoming of the ancient regime and the birth of a new democracy, one who actually abolished slavery?


        If you want to pick a French exemple of Dark Glamour, put the Restoration when the Kings came back or when Napoleon 3 crowned himself Emperor. Not the Revolution, it should be the biggest effusion of Glamour before the Moon's Landing.

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        • #34
          I like the new write-ups for the Legacies; I can actually see myself playing an Unseelie protagonist now.

          As for the French Revolution: it was motivated by high ideals; but all along, it was an illustration of how the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.


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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
            I like the new write-ups for the Legacies; I can actually see myself playing an Unseelie protagonist now.

            As for the French Revolution: it was motivated by high ideals; but all along, it was an illustration of how the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
            Yea but it didn't engineer despair; even in France. The French Revolution exported democracy in Europe and was a model for most revolutions to follow even in South America.

            To see it put in the same breath as the America conquests, the Opium War and the World Wars is a bit jarring.

            How would American feel if the War of Independance was presented as a Tarrarom?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Holden View Post
              It's out!
              GOOD.
              Last edited by Firkraag; 05-03-2017, 07:21 AM.


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              • #37
                Originally posted by ganonso View Post
                What the hell did the French Revolution did to you? An example of humanity giving into despair? The overcoming of the ancient regime and the birth of a new democracy, one who actually abolished slavery?


                If you want to pick a French example of Dark Glamour, put the Restoration when the Kings came back or when Napoleon 3 crowned himself Emperor. Not the Revolution, it should be the biggest effusion of Glamour before the Moon's Landing.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

                All I want to say is that France had a long, rocky path to "Liberté, égalité, fraternité!"

                Revolutions, while at some points of history may be a necessary and inevitable conclusion of an interests conflict, are an indication, that formal leadership of the state and the leaders of public opinion have failed to communicate and achieve a consensus. Revolutions are built on blood and bones of people, who are often called heroes or villains based on the side they nominally supported when they died, not who they were in their lives. And France had seen their heroes turned rotten, violent and oppressive. And there are more peoples I can recall, that did as well.

                How would American feel if the War of Independence was presented as a Tarrarom?
                It depends on who you ask, how much that person knows about the issue, what she believes, how much she's benefitting from that, etc. etc. and even then - different factors might mean more or less to different people.

                Like, what would a Native North American think about War of Independence? It most likely depends.
                Last edited by Firkraag; 05-03-2017, 09:51 AM.


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                • #38
                  Kind of wish the Oba frailty of "can't connect to any place I'd be able to play" wasn't still active I mean its not like the Orishas are were worshipped India or or Saudi Arabia and yet Oba can connect there, yet where the Orishas have become the Loa nothing.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ganonso View Post
                    Actually reading Thallain I have a question. If Thallain are Nightmare-Fae why are the Redcaps and in a lesser measure the Sluaghs not Thallain?
                    Actually, Denizens of the Dreaming pointed out an irony of that. Like, Aonides being among Adhene and Red Caps - among Kithain.

                    This strange division may have something to do with the side they chose to support in the War of Trees, based on their views and predispositions, rather than just heredital or paternal relationships. Sluagh Kithbook indicates, that they have been influenced and shaped into what they are by Thuatha, but it might as well be a justification for how things are. I can imaginme some Unseelie Sluagh, as if they were crippled by Thuatha de Dannan for being true to their nature. Haven't read Red Cap Kithbook, though.


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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ganonso View Post

                      Yea but it didn't engineer despair; even in France. The French Revolution exported democracy in Europe and was a model for most revolutions to follow even in South America.

                      To see it put in the same breath as the America conquests, the Opium War and the World Wars is a bit jarring.

                      How would American feel if the War of Independance was presented as a Tarrarom?
                      Oh yes, the issue was that it ate itself up. When things got so bad that the execution of nobility (not criminals, just for being high class) was a daily event that ladies came to watch and knit by, things went a bit far. I suggest you read Scarlet Pimpernel for a fictional depiction of the issues.

                      For my impressions of the book itself? I love LOVE the splat art, really good depictions of the kiths.


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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Firkraag View Post
                        Actually, Denizens of the Dreaming pointed out an irony of that. Like, Aonides being among Adhene and Red Caps - among Kithain.

                        This strange division may have something to do with the side they chose to support in the War of Trees, based on their views and predispositions, rather than just heredital or paternal relationships. Sluagh Kithbook indicates, that they have been influenced and shaped into what they are by Thuatha, but it might as well be a justification for how things are. I can imaginme some Unseelie Sluagh, as if they were crippled by Thuatha de Dannan for being true to their nature. Haven't read Red Cap Kithbook, though.
                        Kithbook Redcap describe them as "Dreams of Hunger" and puts them as coming from Nightmares. I must reread Shadow Court but I seem to remember they didn't have a Thallain counterpart.

                        Of course that asks the question:; Is there a metaphysical difference between Thallain and Kithain or is it simply political with Thallain coming from Nightmares and having backed the losing side in the War of Trees?

                        The presence of special Triggers for Thallain points to the former but it doesn't explain what the hell is up with the Redcaps. Perhaps it could be a good campaign hook.

                        "The Redcap are only Kithain because they are Oathbound to the Tuhata, someone is disturbing the ancient pledge, go settle this."

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ganonso View Post
                          Of course that asks the question:; Is there a metaphysical difference between Thallain and Kithain or is it simply political with Thallain coming from Nightmares and having backed the losing side in the War of Trees?
                          This one was purposefully left unanswered. I tried to sprinkle in enough evidence for either answer to be correct.


                          Charlie Cantrell
                          Onyx Path Freelancer
                          Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ganonso View Post

                            Yea but it didn't engineer despair; even in France. The French Revolution exported democracy in Europe and was a model for most revolutions to follow even in South America.

                            To see it put in the same breath as the America conquests, the Opium War and the World Wars is a bit jarring.

                            How would American feel if the War of Independance was presented as a Tarrarom?

                            Yes, exactly, seconded. And I'm french

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ganonso View Post

                              Yea but it didn't engineer despair; even in France. The French Revolution exported democracy in Europe and was a model for most revolutions to follow even in South America.

                              To see it put in the same breath as the America conquests, the Opium War and the World Wars is a bit jarring.

                              How would American feel if the War of Independance was presented as a Tarrarom?

                              I think they should have specified la Terreur, and not the revolution itself.

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                              • #45
                                My apologies for the poor word choice. The mention of the French Revolution was intended to reference the situation leading up to it and the Reign of Terror, not the final outcome.


                                Charlie Cantrell
                                Onyx Path Freelancer
                                Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition, Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes, Book of Freeholds

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