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  • #61
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    Are prodigals still treated as mortals for purposes of the Mists? The mage description for example seemed to assume if the "paradigm" matched you were good.
    I don't think there's a blanket rule for it. I figure that, e.g., Toreador vampires are subject to the Mists, but Kiasyd vampires aren't; and Ravnos probably are (just looking at the three sample vampires in the book). Heck, the Kiasyd entry explicitly says that they perceive the Dreaming (and also that they have a fae mien; IDK about them as Vampire has never been one of my interests).

    My rule of thumb would be that as a whole, Prodigals probably are subject to the Mists; but that there exist exceptions to this role, like the Kiasyd or mages with fae-compatible paradigms.


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    • #62
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      I don't think there's a blanket rule for it. I figure that, e.g., Toreador vampires are subject to the Mists, but Kiasyd vampires aren't; and Ravnos probably are (just looking at the three sample vampires in the book). Heck, the Kiasyd entry explicitly says that they perceive the Dreaming (and also that they have a fae mien; IDK about them as Vampire has never been one of my interests).
      In Vampire, the Kiasyd have Faerie Sight, the level 2 power of their signature Discipline Mytherceria, which allows them to see all things fae. The faerie mien is new with C20.


      Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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      • #63
        It's a gorgeous book and I'm loving a lot of what I'm seeing, I'm just supremely disappointed that the ridiculous pooka frailty remained as written. Guess pooka are not meant to have jobs, bank accounts, or access the internet without burning through their willpower. Wow. How utterly stupid. Ugh. First house rule of many, I'm sure. Great work otherwise...

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        • #64
          I'm curious what people think of the overhauled Arts and Realms. We fucked with them a lot.


          Former Exalted developer.
          --
          Holden Reads the entire classic World of Darkness
          Follow my RPG ramblings on Twitter.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Holden View Post
            I'm curious what people think of the overhauled Arts and Realms. We fucked with them a lot.

            Honestly they look awesome but I'm going to have no real comparison until I see them in serious action

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            • #66
              The problem with the pooka frailty is that it's simply the single harshest and most unworkable frailty in the game as written. Even the other kith with willpower based frailties aren't required to spend a willpower point...yet pooka are.

              A betrayed troll simply has to make a willpower roll not to go aggro on whomever betrayed them, no willpower point cost. A boggan simply has to make a willpower check to refuse helping someone in need, no willpower point cost. Yet if asked what his name is a pooka has to pass a willpower check and cough up a willpower point. So things like job interviews, setting up a bank account, getting into college...nope. You better have 10 willpower and be willing to burn through most of them simply to get a job a McDonalds.

              Did the writer of the pooka kith want to make sure they wouldn't ever show up at a gaming table? That's likely the result, without house ruling out that willpower point cost.

              I'd suggest it's worthy of being errata'ed out, but I get the feeling it's very much intended as written.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Holden View Post
                I'm curious what people think of the overhauled Arts and Realms. We fucked with them a lot.


                Am nervous, on Soothsay, the power to reward or punish, with a blessing or curse, used to be very accessible, now...

                What can a Kinain Social worker, who has 2 or 3 dots in soothsay, do to use her Fae power to augment her ability to watch and protect children. (have one in the game im running right now)
                Last edited by Prince of the Night; 05-03-2017, 07:57 PM.


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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Holden View Post
                  I'm curious what people think of the overhauled Arts and Realms. We fucked with them a lot.

                  The new version of the Time realm is awesome. It's a thousand times better than the original.

                  Personally, I love a lot of the changes to the Arts. There were so many Cantrips that felt like they were in the wrong Arts before, and they've pretty much all found better homes. Dragon's Ire as an Art is a neat idea, and I'm really digging it on first impressions. Ruin is super cool; I'm glad the Dauntain have a unique Art now.

                  I'm not sad that Aphrodesia was left out; that's a good call, in my opinion. I am curious why Infusion, Talecraft, the Adhene Arts, and the Shadow Court Arts weren't included, though. Was it just an issue of space?

                  It's also a little odd that Oneiromancy isn't taboo and mostly found among the Adhene anymore, and that Naming doesn't seem to make any mention of being restricted and regulated by the Crystal Circle. (Actually, what happened to the Crystal Circle? There's no mention of them at all, at least that I've found.)

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Rabbit Pooka View Post
                    I'd suggest it's worthy of being errata'ed out, but I get the feeling it's very much intended as written.
                    Eh, you might as well give it a shot and plug it into the errata thread.

                    Having if pookas be the only ones that have to do a Willpower roll AND a Willpower point which the other Kiths don't have? Yeah, I'd say put it up, on the grounds of being inconsistent with the other Kiths.
                    Last edited by tasti man LH; 05-03-2017, 07:51 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by CSSchulz View Post
                      and that Naming doesn't seem to make any mention of being restricted and regulated by the Crystal Circle
                      Naming Art and exclusivity doesn't mesh very well, considering, that Saining is a single most important ritual of changeling after... nothing. Without it, all changelings would've gone into Bedlam or Dauntain, and you needed Naming cantrip Saining to avoid that. Or at least, it was that way. I'm not sure, whether it changed.


                      "Okay, damn, ow. I just gotta… why the heck do all games about faeries read like they are written by them, too?" © open_sketchbook

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Firkraag View Post
                        Naming Art and exclusivity doesn't mesh very well, considering, that Saining is a single most important ritual of changeling after... nothing. Without it, all changelings would've gone into Bedlam or Dauntain, and you needed Naming cantrip Saining to avoid that. Or at least, it was that way. I'm not sure, whether it changed.

                        Having a court Seer/Namer proficient enough to do the Saining was important, and that Seer/Namer held a special position because it was supposed to be a rare and difficult Art to learn. And in the old books, the Sidhe were trying to restrict it, but they definitely weren't a hundred percent successful, and obviously at least some commoners were practicing it while the Sidhe were away. I get wanting to make it more accessible, but I liked the idea that it was a difficult Art to master and that the Sidhe were trying to restrict it as a political power move. I like the way Chronos makes mention of the fact that it used to be considered the province of the Sidhe, while opening it up to all kithain in the modern setting. I would've preferred that approach for Naming, as well, personally.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by CSSchulz View Post


                          The new version of the Time realm is awesome. It's a thousand times better than the original.

                          Personally, I love a lot of the changes to the Arts. There were so many Cantrips that felt like they were in the wrong Arts before, and they've pretty much all found better homes. Dragon's Ire as an Art is a neat idea, and I'm really digging it on first impressions. Ruin is super cool; I'm glad the Dauntain have a unique Art now.

                          I'm not sad that Aphrodesia was left out; that's a good call, in my opinion. I am curious why Infusion, Talecraft, the Adhene Arts, and the Shadow Court Arts weren't included, though. Was it just an issue of space?

                          It's also a little odd that Oneiromancy isn't taboo and mostly found among the Adhene anymore, and that Naming doesn't seem to make any mention of being restricted and regulated by the Crystal Circle. (Actually, what happened to the Crystal Circle? There's no mention of them at all, at least that I've found.)
                          As a general thing, we didn't want to do faction or kith-exclusive Arts, feeling that if a power was signature to a kith, it should be part of their birthright/frailty package, or maybe a Merit. A lot of other Arts we discarded as largely redundant with existing Arts, or just dumb (like that one that was nothing but anti-Sovereign), or structurally built so that they were almost impossible to make gel with the Realms system. One thing we were very adamant on while writing the Arts was that all Arts should be usable with all Realms, and that there shouldn't be Arts that could basically only be used with a single Realm. There used to be a -lot- of those. The Realm "aiming" system is a lot of fun and we felt C20 should prominently showcase it, rather than just kind of fumbling around it like it was an obstacle to writing Disciplines.

                          The Adhene Arts didn't make it in because they were outside the scope of the chapter. It sure wasn't for lack of interest, the Adhene are my favorite thing in Changeling. Maybe they'll show up in a supplement? That's up to Matt.

                          The Shadow Court Arts went the way of the dodo both due to the trend toward anti-exclusivity in the Arts chapter, and because they were kinda stinky conceptually-- "fuck you Sovereign, you're not the boss of me" and "the roofie Art" weren't adding a ton to the game, especially since there were already like three other more generalized arts for fucking with people's heads that could easily cover what Aphrodisia did. So Aphrodisia got demoted from a full Art to a single cantrip to replicate the pine cone comic from Oglaf.


                          Former Exalted developer.
                          --
                          Holden Reads the entire classic World of Darkness
                          Follow my RPG ramblings on Twitter.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Holden View Post

                            As a general thing, we didn't want to do faction or kith-exclusive Arts, feeling that if a power was signature to a kith, it should be part of their birthright/frailty package, or maybe a Merit. A lot of other Arts we discarded as largely redundant with existing Arts, or just dumb (like that one that was nothing but anti-Sovereign), or structurally built so that they were almost impossible to make gel with the Realms system. One thing we were very adamant on while writing the Arts was that all Arts should be usable with all Realms, and that there shouldn't be Arts that could basically only be used with a single Realm. There used to be a -lot- of those. The Realm "aiming" system is a lot of fun and we felt C20 should prominently showcase it, rather than just kind of fumbling around it like it was an obstacle to writing Disciplines.

                            The Adhene Arts didn't make it in because they were outside the scope of the chapter. It sure wasn't for lack of interest, the Adhene are my favorite thing in Changeling. Maybe they'll show up in a supplement? That's up to Matt.

                            The Shadow Court Arts went the way of the dodo both due to the trend toward anti-exclusivity in the Arts chapter, and because they were kinda stinky conceptually-- "fuck you Sovereign, you're not the boss of me" and "the roofie Art" weren't adding a ton to the game, especially since there were already like three other more generalized arts for fucking with people's heads that could easily cover what Aphrodisia did. So Aphrodisia got demoted from a full Art to a single cantrip to replicate the pine cone comic from Oglaf.

                            You dont think "Fuck you!" is an appropiate sentiment for the Shadow court?


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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post


                              You dont think "Fuck you!" is an appropiate sentiment for the Shadow court?
                              I don't think it's a good design basis for a power. As a general thing, "kill Bob" powers don't tend to be a lot of fun. (What's a Kill Bob power? It's a power that specifically kills Bob.)

                              It was incoherent with the Realm system.

                              It's not fun to buy a power, roll 4 successes, and then not have it work because someone bought "Edgy Rebel" and "Edgy Rebel" auto-trumps Lofty Noble.

                              Edgy Rebel auto-trumping the authority of the Nobility also ran against the general grain of how the Dreaming behaves, so the very existence of that Art kinda undermined itself.

                              There are plenty of ways to go "fuck you!" with Legerdemain, Chicanery, Autumn, etc, without just doing an anti-Art.


                              Former Exalted developer.
                              --
                              Holden Reads the entire classic World of Darkness
                              Follow my RPG ramblings on Twitter.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Holden View Post

                                I don't think it's a good design basis for a power. As a general thing, "kill Bob" powers don't tend to be a lot of fun. (What's a Kill Bob power? It's a power that specifically kills Bob.)

                                It was incoherent with the Realm system.

                                It's not fun to buy a power, roll 4 successes, and then not have it work because someone bought "Edgy Rebel" and "Edgy Rebel" auto-trumps Lofty Noble.

                                Edgy Rebel auto-trumping the authority of the Nobility also ran against the general grain of how the Dreaming behaves, so the very existence of that Art kinda undermined itself.

                                There are plenty of ways to go "fuck you!" with Legerdemain, Chicanery, Autumn, etc, without just doing an anti-Art.

                                I have to agree, contempt was a bit Redundant, but one of the other Shadow Court Arts... created a new quest...


                                (also loved how quests were all given a Mechanical component)


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