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Adhene, what? So much the gaping holes.

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  • Adhene, what? So much the gaping holes.

    Okay so adhene don't have banality anymore, can't take banality anymore. Great groovy, they're pretty much more complex cxhimera so, groovy! makes sense, but wait...if they don't take a mortal host, they're naked to banality, and cannot passively regain glamour? okay...this needs clarification, how does one passively gain glamour? Aside from a freehold, that is...Adhene don't have Revelry like kithain do, so...what's this supposed to mean? I understand the not being able to use dross, but whats the implication here? cause it states the only way they can gain glamour is by dealing with dreamers....isn't that the same case for every other changeling who doesn't own a holding, aside? Aside from no freeholds and no dross (which dross doesn't give you glamour anyways, it merely replaces the spending of glamour anyways), where is the big difference here seeing as they don't have any revelry? Lastly, there's the big undefined "Wut?" in this...A Denizen that falls to banality (please explain this, what does falling to banality mean? tripping a banality trigger?) in this form takes one health level of lethal damage a day (chimerical and real) until she returns to the dreaming, where she recovers at the same rate. By Dreaming do they mean "Stops manifesting" or "Hunts down a trod and physically enters the near dreaming despite the fact they cannot walk on the silver way, balor trods are one way, and twilight trods are all heavily guarded? Futher they speak of the evanescent as "Another breed" of adhene, but how are they different? this is not covered, does this merely mean "Hey we've been around awhile and know how to drive things like a stick shift?" or does it mean something more? And on the rules suggesting the possession of mortals...where's the mechanics? does the mortal get no resistance? in the old books it was all about the autumn way, now...do they just Poof take over, no rolls no nothing? And with Aonide's is Adonis ravaging ...actual ravaging? and if so do you suffer the agony of banality hitting your host, or the lethal damage from falling to banality should you botch or fail the Adonis ravaging roll? Like normal ravaging does? There's not explanations....so much is empty or missing...anyone available to explain? This used to be much better explained in the denizens book, now its very very murky.

  • #2
    Oh and...to add insult to injury, did someone copy the Naraka flaw from the old books? And I quote: Limited by Geas and custom, Naraka may only possess those of Hindu faith, no matter the method of possession. ...uhm, what methods of possession aside from...possession are there in C20? Cause the idea of simple possession and using the autumn way is gone, confused about this one. Atop that, 'manifesting' does it have the same effects of going wyrd? IE: If said fuath manifests does he not enter the real world horns hooves and all and cause conniption fits and the mists closing in from essentiually calling upon the wyrd, or using the adhenes version of the wyrd rede?

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    • #3
      Add this into errata thread. Page, qoutes, and contradictions. There would be a better chance that it would be seen and noted.


      ...

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      • #4
        Apparently this was never noticed OR tended to. Any word on some errata here?

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        • #5
          Not only these points but they never really added the Adhene, or even the Inanimae, thoroughly into the setting. I wish they would have included the Adhene and Inanimae more into the regional plots, and even Metaplots. We should have had discussions about which Adhene are allying with the Kithain and notable conflicts. We need discussions of incidents between the fae of all stripes. And how the Adhene interacted with the nonTuatha like the Nunnehi and Inanimae.


          It is a time for great deeds!

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          • #6
            I think the "passive" glamour makes sense - it means you can't regain glamour simply by being near sources of it that would usually replenish you - such as freeholds or glades. The reference to dross doesn't entirely take account of the fact dross now supplies the cantrip's cost rather than supplying the changeling directly, but seems to fall under the same rule. This means they can only use the paths to epiphany to gain glamour while manifesting without possession.

            The lack of Revelry is curious given the lack of direct reference to it. I would guess that it's either an oversight and revelry still applies, but the book lacks examples, or that as it is only used to gather glamour in the Autumn World, and as there are so few adhene in the Autumn World, the chances of finding enough fellow adhene to perform revelry is slim.

            The Naraka birthright is also probably an oversight from previous editions (similar to the Inanimae list of forbidden merits and flaws referring to things no longer in C20). However I think it can still work. I would imagine unleashing Oneiromancy, for instance, might allow for possession of a sleeper. And this can be read as a general prohibition against attempting to "get around" the ban by exploring alternate options.

            I agree that "fall to banality" is unclear, but I read it in the same way as any other changeling. I think this part of the paragraph refers to adhene who have possessed dreamers as well as manifested adhene and while they usually leave before succumbing to banality and the forgetting, that's not necessarily always the case. I assume this means if their permanent banality ever reaches 10, they become undone and start losing health levels until they're returned to the Dreaming? I'm the least sure on this interpretation though and would welcome other ideas.

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            • #7
              This is my solution:

              Banality and the Autumn World
              Denizens who venture into the Autumn World three ways of dealing with it. Actually, they have two ways of dealing with it and one that doesn't deal with it.

              Their most basic form is the Phantom Form. In all effects they might as well be chimera. They have no Banality stat in this form, and may be affected by Banality as chimera are, meaning they need to watch their step around highly Banal people and places. They are effectively ghosts to the those of the Autumn World, while chimerically solid to Changelings and chimera. Unlike the Kithain, they can't call on the Wyrd in this form to interact with the Autumn World. A Denizen who is Undone by high Banality in the way of a chimera is usually not destroyed but instead cast back into the Dreaming and must make their way out again. On the other hand, a Denizen in Phantom Form who dies in the Autumn World is subject to being Undone by Banality just as chimera often are.

              In order to interact with the Autumn World fully, the Denizens have two options: Manifesting or Possession.

              Manifesting is just what it sounds like; by spending a point of Glamour a day, the Denizen becomes solid and material in all ways in the Autumn World.

              Denizens don't have access to the Kithain practices of Rapture or Revelry, and when Manifesting, they can't gain Glamour passively from sources such as a Glade or Balefire. This leaves them only one option if they wish to remain Manifested: interacting with mortals Dreamers. They make make use of Reverie, Ravaging, or even Rhapsody to coax or take Glamour from humans.

              Manifesting is the preferred method of interacting with the Autumn World for most Denizens, particularly Fuaths and Fir-bholg, ironic since they have the hardest time hiding their true nature. Many choose not to; they will remain among other fae or their own kind, or dwell at the fringes of humanity during this time. In order to regain Glamour and extend their time in the Autumn World, they will use a variety of methods, from the Aonides' favorite method of inspiring artists to forming cults that worship them as ancient gods or spirits. Ironically, many of those most suited for passing as human while Manifesting are also the least likely to use this method, preferring longer-term and safer techniques.

              Denizens have no Banality stat in this form. Though high Banality unnerves and nauseates them, it will not shunt them away as it does in their Phantom Form. Particularly potent Banality, though, may be taken as chimerical damage, which may be healed in all the usual ways; a Balefire or Glade WILL help with this.

              Once the Glamour runs out, though, things get bad for a Manifested Denizen, as they begin to take one point of both Chimerical AND Real damage a day; they are effectively burning out, their very core eaten away by Banality. At this point, only returning to the Dreaming will heal them, at the same rate of one point her day. A Denizen who dies in the Autumn World in this way... is believed gone.

              Possession is a safer method of walking in the Autumn World. It comes in two forms; temporary and permanent. Temporary possession requires the Denizen to find a sleeping human while in Phantom Form and effectively step into them. This usually leaves them dreaming during the course of the possession, though some experience the actions of the Denizen from a distance, and remember it dazedly afterwards. Possession may NOT be used on any individual whose Banality is over 6. While possessing a mortal in this manner, the Denizen takes on a Banality state, starting at 2 and growing as a Kithain's does, though few Denizens ever remain in a possessed human long enough to risk being Undone. Despite the human form acting as a shield against Banality and granting them far longer in the Autumn World, fewer Denizens use this method, as many find it uncomfortable, particularly the wilder Adhene like the Fuaths and Fir-bholg. Most Adhene prefer to flit from dreamer to dreamer, using them as vessels to allow them to get close enough to other humans to take still more Glamour. Before they can build too much Banality, they are gone, back into Phantom Form or the Dreaming itself.

              There is another path. It is the rarest of all: a human shell. There are many ways of acquiring one, as noted below under the Merit "Human Shell". For some, this is still somewhat temporary, for if the shell dies, they will be cast out again to live as other Denizens, but for a very few this becomes their new path: the Changeling Way.

              Phantom or Changeling?
              When you make a Dark-Kin you must decide if they are a Phantom or a Changeling. Most are the former, standing apart from the Autumn World. If you choose the latter, then you must take the 4 point Merit "Human Shell." Taking this Merit means you ARE a full-fledged Changeling; however you came by your body, like it or not you have one now and there is no going back to what you were before. There is a place at the top of the character sheet to determine if you are a Phantom or Changeling. Note that you can have the Human Shell Merit and still be a Phantom, in which case you will return to Phantom Form if your human shell dies rather than moving on to another life.

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              • #8
                Why would you ever pick changeling a Denizen then?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by beccatoria View Post
                  I would imagine unleashing Oneiromancy, for instance, might allow for possession of a sleeper.
                  Isn't that outright what Oneiromancy 5 does?

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