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  • Kinain Questions

    I've been comparing the rules between original Kinain and current. I'm not a big fan of how much has been removed from Kinain, though I DO like the Bestowments section quite a bit, it feels VERY fae. There's a lot of confusion, though. They can't have titles, yet there is apparently a titled NPC. And there's nothing on character creation stats at all, other than that apparently they're limited to Glamour 2, though it seems like they can be infused with more, so I am a bit confused.

  • #2
    Kinain of "The Enchanted" had one of the most coherent rulesets written for Changeling: the Dreaming ever.

    Except for the part, where they were more tolerant of banality and didn't fall into Bedlam for spending time in Dreaming (unlike Kithain), which, with some additional Gifts and Faerie Blood 5 could give a truly godlike creature in my eyes, unless nerfed. And that despite being limited to Glamour 5.
    Last edited by Firkraag; 05-21-2017, 07:27 PM.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Firkraag View Post
      Kinain of "The Enchanted" had one of the most coherent rulesets written for Changeling: the Dreaming ever.

      Except for the part, where they were more tolerant of banality and didn't fall into Bedlam for spending time in Dreaming (unlike Kithain), which, with some additional Gifts and Faerie Blood 5 could give a truly godlike creature in my eyes, unless nerfed. And that despite being limited to Glamour 5.
      Yes, I am so far rather inclined to leave things as-is until more comes out, other than taking into account Arts.

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      • #4
        I was wondering if Kinain can take merits and flaws as if they were Kithain. With the removal of Fae Gifts and Faerie Blood getting reworked are they just treated as Kithain for Merit/Flaw selection, except where it obviously doesn't make sense of course.

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        • #5
          My assumption is yes, they can.

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          • #6
            I wound up cobbling together something more between the two myself. I like some if the ideas they came up with but didn't like how much flavor got sliced right out of new Kinain. I really do like them as this melding of humanity and the Dreaming, though, that is neat.

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            • #7
              I also liked the old Enchanted version of the Kinain, though I am not writing off the C20 version. Though I think the new version needs much more material, like clearer character creation.

              House Merinita of the Order of Hermes, is an interesting aspect to detail. They are considered a "lost" house by the present Order of Hermes, but could definitely be a faction among the fae as Kinain magicians. Perhaps Merinita of the Wood is a Lost One, or just allied with one. I would say that membership requires high rankings in Faerie Blood (rank 3+), Fae Sight and at least one dot in a Fae Art and Realm.


              “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
              Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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              • #8
                In the Enchanted sourcebook, a mortal in possession of a Treasure is considered enchanted. Is this still the case?

                Also- I note similarities between the Endowments of enchanted mortals in C20 and the Kami in Umbra the Velvet Shadow. I assume character creation would be similar?
                Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-06-2017, 07:34 PM.


                “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                • #9
                  Besides the Bestowments, why would anyone bother with the Ritual of Parted Mists? You lose 20 Glamour points, plus someone has to sacrifice a permanent dot of Willpower, and it only lasts until the enchanted person loses their sixth point of Glamour (and they lose one every time they gain a point of Banality, by using the aforementioned Bestowments or by spending them on Arts). Once the ritual is broken, you risk gaining more permanent Banality and you can never enchant that person ever again. Wouldn't it just be more prudent to keep temporarily enchanting someone?

                  If I were to make this more appealing, I'd probably rule that the Ritual confers just a single permanent dot of Glamour instead (and a single temporary point). Only when the enchanted human loses all *dots* does she permanently lose her enchantment. Loss of temporary dots results only in the Forgetting.

                  Does anyone else have any ideas about how to make the Ritual of the Parted Mists work better?

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                  • #10
                    Perhaps other types of enchantment? Things like eating fairy food, fairy eye ointment (granting fae sight), time spent in the dreaming, fae talisman, etc.
                    Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-07-2017, 07:49 AM.


                    “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                    Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                    • #11
                      I think Treasures no longer enchant humans. They just appear as mundane items (in the section on the enchanted, an enchanted person has to spend Glamour to use a Treasure, too).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
                        I think Treasures no longer enchant humans. They just appear as mundane items (in the section on the enchanted, an enchanted person has to spend Glamour to use a Treasure, too).
                        Certain types of Treasures might. If we get a treasure creation system, this will be easier to gauge.

                        The Hedge magic paths of Alchemy (Herbalism) and Enchantment could create means to grant a form of enchantment.
                        Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-07-2017, 09:11 AM.


                        “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                        Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
                          In the Enchanted sourcebook, a mortal in possession of a Treasure is considered enchanted. Is this still the case?
                          I don't remember this. Could you specify a page number?

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                          • #14
                            It's in Changeling the Dreaming 2nd edition on page 149, the Treasure Background, first paragraph, last sentence. "Since treasures are
                            invested with Glamour, they have the effect of enchanting mortals who touch them."


                            Also, the kinain noble was a mistake, as the NPC in question is a sidhe and not kinain. Enchanted did have a knighted kinain, but King David himself knighted her.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Windthin View Post
                              I wound up cobbling together something more between the two myself. I like some if the ideas they came up with but didn't like how much flavor got sliced right out of new Kinain. I really do like them as this melding of humanity and the Dreaming, though, that is neat.
                              I'm looking at doing something like this. Some of the ideas for kinain in C20 are really nice and should be expanded. I think that the details in Enchanted were wonderful, but a blend of the new and old ideas would be even better.




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                              The Shepherd's Freehold

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