Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Where's the Nymphs?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    What? Really what page that sounds nuts?
    It was for the Revised tribebook, so it's not quite so nuts - the opposition to crossover meant that unless you wanted them to exist, they wouldn't. Additionally, the narrator mentions that humans don't work magic, but do have miraculous technology, which, again, is in keeping with Werewolf not copping to Mage's postmodern view of fusing magic and technology into the same thing, ever.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

      It was for the Revised tribebook, so it's not quite so nuts - the opposition to crossover meant that unless you wanted them to exist, they wouldn't. Additionally, the narrator mentions that humans don't work magic, but do have miraculous technology, which, again, is in keeping with Werewolf not copping to Mage's postmodern view of fusing magic and technology into the same thing, ever.
      Except everything in book of the Weaver.

      Also the whole opinion that "mages don't exist" is pretty much objectively wrong by what they are saying even ignoring the whole mage line of games, the opinion was humans have no rites to command or control the spirit world(which if they even had good enough records they'd know wasn't true from Wild West days). The lesson we learn from the Glasswalker book is that their Galliards are shit.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Lian View Post

        Except everything in book of the Weaver.
        There was material that allowed for Technocrat overlap with some very Werewolf touches, and none of the fetishes or devices within it were technomagick. In any case, Book of the Weaver is from the crossover-happy 2nd edition, so it's not really topical for the outlook in Revised.

        Also the whole opinion that "mages don't exist" is pretty much objectively wrong by what they are saying even ignoring the whole mage line of games, the opinion was humans have no rites to command or control the spirit world(which if they even had good enough records they'd know wasn't true from Wild West days). The lesson we learn from the Glasswalker book is that their Galliards are shit.
        No, it's that Revised hates crossover with a vengeance, and that it was trying to make sure that every line was clearly on its own to focus on its own endgame. By the time we get to the Time of Judgment run-up, the notion that any other games play a part in these swan song volumes is a few paragraphs at best. Witness also Vic Stryker getting an actual pack instead of hanging around vampires, mages, and changelings.

        Mage and Werewolf are also pretty thoroughly antithetical to each other and present extremely different settings in their respective books. So if Werewolf chooses to cut Mage out of the loop completely... that's pretty much just a low-conflict way of focusing back on Werewolf.

        (The 2nd edition GW tribebook talked about caern draining and getting Uktena to fight them for you, but only seemed focused on mysticks.)
        Last edited by Saur Ops Specialist; 06-12-2018, 12:40 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

          There was material that allowed for Technocrat overlap with some very Werewolf touches, and none of the fetishes or devices within it were technomagick. In any case, Book of the Weaver is from the crossover-happy 2nd edition, so it's not really topical for the outlook in Revised.
          For some reason I thought it was revised since that's when Wyld also came out but I was mistaken.



          No, it's that Revised hates crossover with a vengeance, and that it was trying to make sure that every line was clearly on its own to focus on its own endgame. By the time we get to the Time of Judgment run-up, the notion that any other games play a part in these swan song volumes is a few paragraphs at best. Witness also Vic Stryker getting an actual pack instead of hanging around vampires, mages, and changelings.

          Mage and Werewolf are also pretty thoroughly antithetical to each other and present extremely different settings in their respective books. So if Werewolf chooses to cut Mage out of the loop completely... that's pretty much just a low-conflict way of focusing back on Werewolf.

          (The 2nd edition GW tribebook talked about caern draining and getting Uktena to fight them for you, but only seemed focused on mysticks.)
          I think you are very hung up on the Technomagic aspect. And cyberfetishes were still a thing in that book so I'm going to keep that there. This has nothing to do with mage. Crossovers, "magic is science" and what have you except.. the Glasswalkers profoundly failing in that direction. The person explaining Mages explains magic doesn't exist. That Humans have no capacity to do mystic things like Gifts and Rites. This is OBJECTIVELY wrong even by pure werewolf standards.

          The Glasswalker goes on to say any tale of "humans doing magic" is just other tribes being too stupid to understand technology. Its meant to show a PROFOUND failing among the Glasswalkers and their arrogance towards other tribes and lack of wisdom.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Lian View Post

            For some reason I thought it was revised since that's when Wyld also came out but I was mistaken.
            Book of the Wyld was also kind of a preview for new spirit-mechanics, coming out as it did fairly close to the edge of the edition. One of the first places where Essence showed up in place of Power!

            I think you are very hung up on the Technomagic aspect. And cyberfetishes were still a thing in that book so I'm going to keep that there.
            Cyberfetishes were first introduced in Werewolf and are a distinctly Werewolf thing, since they're spirits bound into implanted objects and kept together solely because the bodies of Garou and Fera have inherent spirit power to do so. I doubt that they'd work out so well for Mage.

            This has nothing to do with mage. Crossovers, "magic is science" and what have you except.. the Glasswalkers profoundly failing in that direction. The person explaining Mages explains magic doesn't exist. That Humans have no capacity to do mystic things like Gifts and Rites. This is OBJECTIVELY wrong even by pure werewolf standards.

            The Glasswalker goes on to say any tale of "humans doing magic" is just other tribes being too stupid to understand technology. Its meant to show a PROFOUND failing among the Glasswalkers and their arrogance towards other tribes and lack of wisdom.
            Except for the era in which it was written, where crossover got flushed and Umbral Pilots received a head-shaking. This is beyond some commentary on the tribe; it's out into the metatext of being really hard against crossovers and past attitudes present in the game.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

              Book of the Wyld was also kind of a preview for new spirit-mechanics, coming out as it did fairly close to the edge of the edition. One of the first places where Essence showed up in place of Power!
              Book of the wyld is soldily in revised at least from what I can tell from printing.



              Cyberfetishes were first introduced in Werewolf and are a distinctly Werewolf thing, since they're spirits bound into implanted objects and kept together solely because the bodies of Garou and Fera have inherent spirit power to do so. I doubt that they'd work out so well for Mage.
              Maybe we are talking past eachother. I am saying a mix of technology and supernatural is explicitly part of the werewolf genre. You don't need to include some sort of crossover for it to happen.


              Except for the era in which it was written, where crossover got flushed and Umbral Pilots received a head-shaking. This is beyond some commentary on the tribe; it's out into the metatext of being really hard against crossovers and past attitudes present in the game.
              Except what they are saying is explicitly wrong even in a "No other games except werewolf exist" perspective. From a PURELY werewolf perspective humans DO have access to various supernatural capacities. IF they didn't then you know.. wyrm cults wouldn't be a thing.

              I will compare the opinion on "humans don't have any form of supernatural powers except maybe science" to every other tribe book which has something to say about humans with some form of supernatural power. If this really was a Revised "go out and kill all crossovers" thing and not a commentary on Glasswalker lack of wisdom why does EVERY OTHER REVISED TRIBEBOOK have something to say on Mages

              I am not expecting them to have Virtual Adept buddies or secret Technocracy backdoors or any sort of crossover discussion like that, I am saying the Glasswalkers alone among every tribe saying "nope humans can't do anything that's not mundane science" is meant to show a serious flaw in the tribe.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Lian View Post


                Maybe we are talking past eachother. I am saying a mix of technology and supernatural is explicitly part of the werewolf genre. You don't need to include some sort of crossover for it to happen.
                You do need crossover for technology to be a form of magic, which is solidly Mage. Apologies for the confusion. The relevance of this stance is in how the narrator dismisses human magic as a thing to worry over, and basically just says that technology is what they have instead, which is kind of a middle finger to Mage's accounting of the world.

                Except what they are saying is explicitly wrong even in a "No other games except werewolf exist" perspective. From a PURELY werewolf perspective humans DO have access to various supernatural capacities. IF they didn't then you know.. wyrm cults wouldn't be a thing.
                The humans cease to become human in that regard, as the spirits first reshape them.

                I will compare the opinion on "humans don't have any form of supernatural powers except maybe science" to every other tribe book which has something to say about humans with some form of supernatural power. If this really was a Revised "go out and kill all crossovers" thing and not a commentary on Glasswalker lack of wisdom why does EVERY OTHER REVISED TRIBEBOOK have something to say on Mages

                I am not expecting them to have Virtual Adept buddies or secret Technocracy backdoors or any sort of crossover discussion like that, I am saying the Glasswalkers alone among every tribe saying "nope humans can't do anything that's not mundane science" is meant to show a serious flaw in the tribe.
                It wouldn't have been written that way without the way Revised shaped out, but fair point. Revised tribebooks sometimes ran into stumbling blocks, and sometimes just failed completely (eyes CoG revised copy on shelf).

                Comment

                Working...
                X