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Changeling the Dreaming without the other settings

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  • Changeling the Dreaming without the other settings

    We all know crossovers stink. And the different groups populating the classic World of Darkness all have their own mechanics, most of which dont mesh with Changeling.

    Personally, I handle the other types of beings as denizens of the Dreaming (vampires, werecritters, etc) or mortals with enough knowledge of magic to be dangerous (hedge magic and/or Arts n Realms).

    What house rules do you use?
    Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-07-2017, 03:00 PM.

  • #2
    Those work well enough. The changeling mindset allows for any other critter to be emulated as either a kith or chimera. The new 'create your own kith' rules help too. In changeling lore, they're all just Prodigals anyway.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
      Those work well enough. The changeling mindset allows for any other critter to be emulated as either a kith or chimera. The new 'create your own kith' rules help too. In changeling lore, they're all just Prodigals anyway.
      Agreed. And you make a good point on kith creation. Kiths like ennchanters, wolfen, and bloodfiends would be great.

      Fairy Animals are a good option here. Unicorns that look like deer or horses to mortals, magical badgers and talking cats to name a few. The Rorqual in particular come to mind as important fae animals.
      Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-07-2017, 06:09 PM.

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      • #4
        I haven't had trouble using other gamelines for NPCs, as long as I own and are familiar with their respective books. Any other cosmology is secondary to Changeling's in a Changeling game.

        I do think Mages might work for PC mixing, but I've never tried it, and I wouldn't use any other gameline for PCs.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by zenten View Post
          I haven't had trouble using other gamelines for NPCs, as long as I own and are familiar with their respective books. Any other cosmology is secondary to Changeling's in a Changeling game.

          I do think Mages might work for PC mixing, but I've never tried it, and I wouldn't use any other gameline for PCs.
          Mages outstrip all other types in short order as pcs. Personally I like fae to have the dynamic edge in magic. So I allow linear mages in Changeling.

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          • #6
            I'm not sure they do from my having run both games separately, but like I said I haven't tried a crossover game. I get the impression that Mages win out on flexibility, while Changelings edge out on raw magical power, for the same length of time as a PC.

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            • #7
              The possibilities for mixed Changeling/Mage games IS interesting. Though Tradition mages are an easier go-to, I am thoughtful of a fae friendly Craft. Or even Orphan mages.
              Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-07-2017, 08:40 PM.

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              • #8
                You could be able to transmute Mages into something more "Changeling"

                If we take the short story about Mages in Changeling corebook, True Mages are some sort of powerful dreamers belonging to four factions related to the elements that created new dreams without the help of the fae.

                If we take this to the heart , I think it could be appropiate to treat them as humans but with Arts and Realms similar to faes. Their power it's supposed to be very Glamorous, exept for those who are servants of Banality that are the opposite. Powerful ones may be able to travel to the Dreaming and have a certain influence there, to both cement the idea that true mages are potent dreamers and to make a wink to the idea that mages may leave the earth to be immortal, and become mad or unhuman in the process.

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                • #9
                  Personally I've never had any troubles with crossovers, mixed PC's or just using NPC's of different lines, usually the greatest difficulties come from crossing wraiths with anything since they are usually within another realm of existence but even that can be done.

                  That aside the four factions, or elements, that Mages are presented in the story of changeling core, 2nd edition core that is, align with the four Avatar essences. 3 of which align with the 3 core concepts of WoDs basic forces Dynamism, Stasis and Entrophy also known as Wyld, Weaver and Wyrm the fourth is the Questing Essence. But the essences themselves do not necessarily connect to how banal a Mage is as even a static traditionalist generally ends up on the lower side of the Banality scale while even the most Dynamic Technocrat will end up rather high on said scale.

                  Power wise changelings are now, since C20, quite near if not equal to Mages in both power of effects and versatility as well, thanks to Unleashings. Though changeling power is limited by how scarce Glamour is as a resource and the pure unpredictability of Unleashings. But thanks to generally higher power dicepoools Changelings have the edge on Mages in quick and unpredictable situations while Mages still hold the edge, as always, when they have time to prepare and cast their effects with extented rituals.

                  All this is naturally assuming that the ST is familiar enough with both lines to mix em naturally.

                  In genral though I dont think I have any particular house rules I use though, going back to the original question posed by the OP, but with crossovers it's occasionally good to remember the golden rule and that the story comes first but then again that actually goes with any game not just crossovers.

                  Just KISS and do not get too hung up on every little thing, in the end WoD rules tend to be quite simple and the few rules that are incompatible, like effects relying on traits like humanity, rage or some other trait specific to a game line are usually easy to manage, either by assigning an approximation of said trait or even just using a similar, but different, trait the other party does possess to just making a ruling according to the spirit of the power in question. For example of the last option if a Vampiric power uses a mechanic tied to targets humanity just consider why the power in question uses humanity as a difficulty or some other part of the mechanic and then rule the difficulty or effect accordingly. A Savage Redcap or a nightmarish Thallain would naturally be considered to have low humanity for example while a noble redcap who is either bound by structural code of conduct or who just uses his/her nightmarish nature to teach valuable lessons to his victims and gains little pleasure from the terror felt by them could have a higher humanity for the purposes of said vampiric power. In the end humanity is just a statistic that measures how monstrous one is. Similar Logic can pretty easily be used in most situations that come up with crossovers.

                  Naturally while I have never had problems when it comes to crossovers and in fact to me the very idea of the different lines being their own seperate WoDs is an alien concept as to me WoD has ever been a one world inhabited by all sorts of supernatural beings each with their own perspective on things. To me lupines have always been the Garou it's just that Vampires whom do not generally speak the Garou Tongue wouldn't know to call them that and the leeches have always been the Kindred it's just that the Garou would never use a word that implies such likeness or familiarity to describe such a monstrous, in their eyes, being. But in the end as with all things YMMV.

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                  • #10
                    While I too like troupe play with experienced players (as long as power gamers are kept in check), too many options can be an issue with new players. Also, all those books add up for those new to this hobby of ours.

                    However I am pondering detailing fae friendly groups that I think need attention.
                    Last edited by MythAdvocate; 07-08-2017, 11:43 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Easiest fix: there aren't any Prodigals. Just changelings and chimeras.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                        Easiest fix: there aren't any Prodigals. Just changelings and chimeras.
                        That would certainly make for a colder world.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
                          While I too like troupe play with experienced players (as long as power gamers are kept in check), too many options can be an issue with new players. Also, all those books add up for those new to this hobby of ours.
                          I do understand but then again if the crossover splats are meant to be NPC's you can either use their own systems, if familiar with them as they only work on the background only you need to be aware of them so no confusion for new players, or the systems given for them in C20, if not familiar with the splats in question.

                          However I am pondering detailing fae friendly groups that I think need attention.
                          I do understand the sentiment as we have woefully little details on Fae-prodical relations especially with the factions most suited to such things. More information on House Merinita in general, House Fiona and Fianna tribe's relations beyond off-hand mentions of sharing Fae blood would be much appreciated. Similarly information of Kiasyd, and now Maeghar, and their relations to the Fae and Dreaming in general, as Mytheceria allows them to basically enchant themselves and thus make their involment in chimerical matters almost certain. Now that we have been given the Thallain most likely behind the whole Kiasyd affair, in the from of Sevartal, it would be nice to get to know more of their relations, and the Oaths involved in the matter as the Sevartal have almost certainly forged some Oaths between them and Markonius and likely those Oaths could reach to his line as a whole.
                          Speaking of Oaths it would be very nice to get more information of the Ancient Oaths forged between the Fae and various prodigals, like with the Garou and Fianna specifically.

                          But in the end none of this needs particularly mechanical data, as most of what we would need is more fluff information.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                            Easiest fix: there aren't any Prodigals. Just changelings and chimeras.
                            I think ghosts need to be there too, although they could be more like how ghosts work in Chronicles of Darkness.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by zenten View Post
                              Originally posted by Dataweaver
                              Easiest fix: there aren't any Prodigals. Just changelings and chimeras.

                              I think ghosts need to be there too, although they could be more like how ghosts work in Chronicles of Darkness.
                              How Banal can CtD players be if they wish to limit possibilities and eliminate diversion in the world by removing whole species of beings?

                              But each to his/her own I guess.
                              Last edited by Possessed; 07-09-2017, 09:16 AM.

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