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Changelings and Demons

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  • Saint Michael
    started a topic Changelings and Demons

    Changelings and Demons

    How do changelings and demons interact in your games? In ours, Kithain are the remnants of the Holy Host, and Fallen and Kithain sense each other on sight. We had a "thrall immunity" in our last game, as far as changelings are concerned. I might keep that. Kinain would essentially be Nephilim from a Demon's point of view, wouldn't they?

  • adambeyoncelowe
    replied
    Originally posted by zenten View Post
    Freeholds have nothing to do with the Umbra.
    That's not quite true. As it was explained in Second Edition, the Dreaming cuts through various levels of the Umbra, even if it is technically its own thing. It's a strata that cuts through High and Middle Umbra, and in places touches upon the Dark Umbra. Maybe it was Dreams and Nightmares on the Storytellers Guide that explained it? I can't remember.

    Freeholds (at least, the fae part) are where the Dreaming seeps into/touches the Autumn World. So by extension, I just don't see demons interacting with freeholds, and definitely not the chimerical elements. They probably can't see chimerical reality anyway.

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  • Thkaal
    replied
    This is why when I want to play Demon, I actually play In Nomine. All of this was considered all ready.

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  • Lian
    replied
    I'm just going to point out yet again the difference between "arcadian Sidhe" and "Demon" from an outside perspective isn't all that great. Fallen returns even match up very well when the Thallain and Dark Kin were released en masse. Fallen have a story of about being outcast from their fellow shining Ones for their actions. They even organize themselves into HOUSES...

    I'm just saying it looks odd that The Fallen match up rather well to Sidhe who've fallen to the corruption of the Formorians.. even Torment being a "Gift' of the formorians is right there...

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    I like the Idea that the Tuatha could be related to the Children Lilith had with other Gods and Demons. And if Hsien are Fae long ago, then they are very close to Demons as they are both Heavenly agents. But hell Tuatha and Fomorians could have been started by Angels, and all the rest are their Progeny. Glamour eating seems like an evolution of Faith eating. Primordial Dark Age Fae is all about plucking potential from the Mists, that seems an aweful lot like Lore Carving Creation from the First Night.

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  • Saint Michael
    replied
    C20 Technocrats can't serve as Dreamers, and C20 Demons' host bodies do have high Banality. Both of which I'm ignoring because it makes crossover difficult.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by zenten View Post
    High Banality for an entire splat has been thrown out in C20, and rightly so. So even Vampires and Technocrats don't necessarily have a high Banality anymore; it would be really weird if Demons did.
    I don't know about that; Technocrats still seem presented as having a rather high Banality.

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  • zenten
    replied
    High Banality for an entire splat has been thrown out in C20, and rightly so. So even Vampires and Technocrats don't necessarily have a high Banality anymore; it would be really weird if Demons did.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Though they have everything to do with the Dreaming, which Demons probably cannot perceive considering that Changelings aren't even mentioned in any of the Demon books that I have read.
    Last edited by Aya Tari; 07-25-2017, 04:00 PM.

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  • zenten
    replied
    Freeholds have nothing to do with the Umbra.

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  • adambeyoncelowe
    replied
    Since Demons don't understand the Umbra (it came about after the rebellion), I don't think they could make a reliquary of a freehold. They just...wouldn't even notice it.

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  • Saint Michael
    replied
    We had quite a few moronic house rules in the last game I was in, too many of which favored DtF. That was one of the less stupid ones. I was waiting for Changeling 20th to come out so I could figure out something less broken. It might be interesting if a literally Earthbound Demon binds itself to a freehold as a Reliquary. Or even worse, the balefire itself. I can see gatherings of Fallen refugees in the Dreaming, since they can use trods in Apocalyptic form and the Dreaming (might) anchor them from Hell's spiritual gravity.

    Does anyone know what the "beacon for hunters, Technocrats, and others who would do him harm" is in Demon? What does "befoul[ing] the environment" refer to? The presence of an Earthbound Reliquary, or something else?

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  • zenten
    replied
    What I mean is while the Seelie might not generally like high Torment demons, I don't think most of the Kithain will assume Formorians.

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  • Saint Michael
    replied
    Changeling would be much less interesting without either. I play both kith almost exclusively. Thanks for letting me know about the rules in Devil's Due We didn't get enough in C20, though I expected that, considering how much they had to cover already.

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  • zenten
    replied
    I disagree. Recaps and sluagh should also seem "corrupt".

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