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What Happens when a Dauntain is captured?

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  • What Happens when a Dauntain is captured?

    wondered a bit, ever since reading the immortal eye trilogy... what happens when a dauntain is brought in chains before the nobility.

    Ideas think they'll be dispatched as a mercy, or given a trial to determine if they can be rehabilitated or not?



  • #2
    Depends on the noble.
    But keep in mind: Killing isn't the same to Changelings as it is to the rest of the WoD. Execution will probably done with Chimerical weapons and the mists will take care for a while (pretty long, since Dautain have really high banality).

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    • #3
      ideas what can be done with a Chimericly dead Enemy? Dauntain or otherwise?

      a Chivalrous noble, will want to keep him safe... but also keep their subjects safe from them


      best guess, is to assign some kinain to watch them.;


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      • #4
        It also might depend on the type of dauntain. I remember there is one type that sheds infected glamour. Even if he skirts changeling society and freeholds his bloody sloshed off glamour could infect chimeras and freeholds could cause quite the stir. What does a noble do when the glamour from the balefire is diseased as the one who did it lay before him?.

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        • #5
          Are we talking about C20 Dauntain, or Autumn People Dauntain? Because I would see C20 Dauntain as being treated like Escheat breaking Changelings, while Autumn People Dauntain would be treated like horribly tainted monsters.

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          • #6
            Warlocks can be closer to the former, tho.


            ...

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            • #7
              Based on the C20 writeup, I imagine most Dauntain would face mortal death. They're described as being "among the most frightening" things changelings can think of and "a horror that chills straight to the soul." The book goes on to say that most changelings believe that when Dauntain are killed, they are reincarnated and given a second chance (whether or not that's true, it's what the Kithain believe). So, with all that in mind, I do think that local nobility would put Dauntain to death, if not to save themselves from the Dauntain, then to save the Dauntain.

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              • #8
                I can't remember, is there a Kenning roll or something to determine if someone is a Dauntain? Naming?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                  wondered a bit, ever since reading the immortal eye trilogy... what happens when a dauntain is brought in chains before the nobility.

                  Ideas think they'll be dispatched as a mercy, or given a trial to determine if they can be rehabilitated or not?
                  Dauntain cannot be rehabilitated as if they're criminals of society. They're monstrous mockeries, damaged by their own ancient choices or with curses inflicted on them. They are, fundamentally, broken. The Dreaming rejects them, and they're fairly twisted because of it. It's not a matter of the Escheat being broken, because the Dreaming does not recognize the Dauntain as belonging to it. They're traumatized, damaged children rejected by the gestational force that should nurture them, and while some of them believe they can be "cured", none of them ever are and life after life, they come back with that punishment literally branded on them.

                  A changeling can absolutely get away with full on mortal death and/or permanent Undoing. The Dreaming specifically rejects the Dauntain; the Escheat and the Old Laws™ might be enforced socially or politically, but mystically? The Dreaming wants the Dauntain gone from it, and does not punish those who remove the pestilence. Beyond that? Sweet Jesus, have you looked at Ruin? Smart Kithain wouldn't want to risk a Dauntain anywhere near their free holds for the formalities of a trial, because the one thing the Dauntain are really *really* good at is fucking up Glamour and sources of Glamour.
                  Last edited by Maggie C; 11-06-2017, 05:46 AM. Reason: For clarity.


                  Maggie Carroll
                  Onyx Path Freelancer & Developer
                  Working On: Book of Freeholds
                  Worked On: V20 TMR, Demon STG, C20, Conquering Heroes, Building A Legend

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zenten View Post
                    I can't remember, is there a Kenning roll or something to determine if someone is a Dauntain? Naming?
                    They are literally branded, and changelings might not know what language the Brand is in, but on an instinctual level, they recognize it as a Dauntain Brand if they catch sight of it.


                    Maggie Carroll
                    Onyx Path Freelancer & Developer
                    Working On: Book of Freeholds
                    Worked On: V20 TMR, Demon STG, C20, Conquering Heroes, Building A Legend

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maggie C View Post

                      They are literally branded, and changelings might not know what language the Brand is in, but on an instinctual level, they recognize it as a Dauntain Brand if they catch sight of it.
                      Can I ask why potential stories of not knowing who's a Dauntain would be closed off like that?
                      Last edited by zenten; 11-06-2017, 08:54 AM. Reason: Much too harsh

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zenten View Post

                        Can I ask why potential stories of not knowing who's a Dauntain would be closed off like that?
                        I'm not sure I understand: how do you feel it closes stories off?


                        Maggie Carroll
                        Onyx Path Freelancer & Developer
                        Working On: Book of Freeholds
                        Worked On: V20 TMR, Demon STG, C20, Conquering Heroes, Building A Legend

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Maggie C View Post

                          I'm not sure I understand: how do you feel it closes stories off?
                          Every story involving a Dauntain is just "how do we stop this objectively evil monster that everyone agrees is a monster". No moral dilemmas, no trying to figure out who is a Dauntain, just a short battle that goes one of two ways.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Maggie C View Post

                            Dauntain cannot be rehabilitated as if they're criminals of society. They're monstrous mockeries, damaged by their own ancient choices or with curses inflicted on them. They are, fundamentally, broken. The Dreaming rejects them, and they're fairly twisted because of it. It's not a matter of the Escheat being broken, because the Dreaming does not recognize the Dauntain as belonging to it. They're traumatized, damaged children rejected by the gestational force that should nurture them, and while some of them believe they can be "cured", none of them ever are and life after life, they come back with that punishment literally branded on them.

                            A changeling can absolutely get away with full on mortal death and/or permanent Undoing. The Dreaming specifically rejects the Dauntain; the Escheat and the Old Laws™ might be enforced socially or politically, but mystically? The Dreaming wants the Dauntain gone from it, and does not punish those who remove the pestilence. Beyond that? Sweet Jesus, have you looked at Ruin? Smart Kithain wouldn't want to risk a Dauntain anywhere near their free holds for the formalities of a trial, because the one thing the Dauntain are really *really* good at is fucking up Glamour and sources of Glamour.
                            Wow... Were what you're saying a lie and not 'Word of God', this excerpt would've sound an awful lot, like a racist propaganda piece from a mouth of some Glamour-purist, players could find in a Court or another public Changeling meeting.

                            "You should't feel compassion to them, it's not like they're real Changelings or anything." "They are broken, unfit to live and pose a danger to society. Killing them is an act of mercy."

                            And think about it. If Dreaming wanted them gone, why would it revive them, again and again? Why Brand them in the first place? And as the book says, most of the Changelings get their free out-of-jail card, once they're reborn. It's these folks, that get the short end of the stick. What makes them special? The Dreaming...

                            A funny thing, though. The piece on Dauntain says, that they are afflicted with terrible curse, trauma and often a grave unjustice. The Changeling society shuns them. And that they can wield Ruin. Interesting, that it doesn't say they have to use Ruin or particularly prone to evil. They can band together with other Dauntain and hurt Changelings, yes. But do they have to?

                            So... a brave Sidhe chevalier with a cold iron dagger comes to your friend, a tormented Dauntain, like you, to murder him without any remorse or regret. Or an angry mob drives you away from your home, because you taint their pretty neighbourhood with your very presence. In fact, they will drive you out of any place, that's even marginally less depressing and soul crushing, than the rest of the world. And one of their butchers will come for you one day, as well.

                            You have a choice to band together with other Dauntain. You have a choice to learn Ruin. You have a choice to stand up for the accursed, forsaken and downtrodden. You have a choice to fight back and protect yourself. You have a choice to use Ruin agaist the very Dreaming, that spawned you...

                            Would you take it?

                            I take it, that Dauntain, as presented, can be a terrible menace, but what you said there sounds a bit extreme and the mindset for treating Dauntain you suggest for Changelings is the very thing, that makes them into a more of a menace, than they are. Dauntain aren't born with the knowledge of Ruin. They don't even know they need it, at first. The Kithain society teaches them.
                            Last edited by Firkraag; 11-07-2017, 03:53 AM.


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                            • #15
                              Now, from what I remember of Autumn People, before, each Dauntain Agenda had their own detailed origin, sometimes an accident, sometimes a choice.

                              I figured to suggest and here is as good place as any, to make Dauntain more of boogieman for young Changeling, making them more mysterious or uncertain and to encourage each Storyteller to make up their own Dauntain explanation, based on C20 oк stuff from Autumn People. What is your Changeling campaign is about and what your Changeling troupe would be afraid of the most?
                              • Maybe Dauntain are the newly converted Thailain?
                              • Maybe they are the "zombies"?
                              • Maybe the Dauntain are the unholy mix of Banality and Glamour, a result of monstrous magical experimenting to survive the upcoming Winter?
                              • Maybe the Dauntain are actually the famed Síocháin? Maybe the Síocháin are actually the infamous Dauntain?
                              • Maybe they're Dreaming's own servants to punish and police Changelings? Maybe they're the Fomorian curse to torment and punish Kithain?
                              • Maybe the Dauntain is what the final stage of Bedlam looks like? Maybe it's what happens to those, who give up to Banality?
                              • Maybe they're what happens to those killed with Cold Iron? Or almost killed, their blood and soul being poisoned?
                              • Maybe Dauntain is just a catch-all term, that refers to all sorts of outcasts, criminals, Oathbreakers, Thallain and monsters, that lurk in the dark.
                              • Are they the worst criminals or the tragic figures? (I always loved the Oath of Undoing of The Cursed Dauntain)
                              • Do they know, what they are or are they unwitting slaves of their dark urges? Do they remember their Kithain legacy or think they're human/supernaturals?
                              • Are they the new Kith (Autumn Fae or Winter Fae) or can be of any Kith?
                              • Are they monsters, through and through or have brighter sides? Are they monsters at all?
                              • Are Dauntain curable or incurable?
                              • Is being Dauntain a curse at all?..
                              • Is what Changeling society knows (or tells) about Dauntain is true? False? A lie? A political piece? Some magically enforced delusion?
                              Last edited by Firkraag; 11-07-2017, 03:49 AM.


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