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Question: How does the Kith age corelates with his human age?

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  • Question: How does the Kith age corelates with his human age?

    so here's my questions.

    lets say that Larry is in his mid 20's. that would mean he is a Wilder, right?.

    we know theres three ages that kiths go through , childer, wilder and grump. if i had to correlate each one with a human "Age", which one would correspond? and when (aprox) does a Childer becomes a wilder and so on?

    if my human character is going through his 15'th birthday he becomes a wilder all the sudden?
    how long does the span age of each one lasts?

    and is it possible for a character to be a human child while in reality being a grump? and how can this be ?

  • Davesknd
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

    You know what? We're moving this to a different thread. This one has already been derailed enough.

    To make a long story short, I heartily disagree with you. m
    That's fine.
    I don't really feel like going on anyways. I don't see what you see and that can happen. Maybe it's bias, more likely, it's me being an idiot.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by Davesknd View Post
    TL;DR: Whimsy is more horrifying than Banality could ever hope to be because you get numb to the latter while whimsy keeps you vulnerable.
    But maybe that's just me.
    You know what? We're moving this to a different thread. This one has already been derailed enough.

    To make a long story short, I heartily disagree with you. m

    Leave a comment:


  • Davesknd
    replied
    Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post

    What can I say? The '90s were formative years for me. I unironically enjoy a good, new miserable experience

    Seriously though, the dichotomy between the crushing hopelessness and the unadulterated whimsy is one of the things I've always loved about Changeling: The Dreaming. I definitely try to leave the door open for wonder in my Changeling work while still establishing that yes, it is a World of Darkness gameline and yes, it is a horror setting. It's a balancing act, and how well I pull it off (or don't) is certainly up to the reader's interpretation.

    Hopefully you'll enjoy Book of Freeholds more when it drops, but reading your posts, I'm not sure you will. I tried to call back to all eras of Changeling: The Dreaming's publication in my sections, but it is tonally in line with C20 and the supplements released so far.

    Yeah, I noted the 90s influence. I'm so glad I spent that decade inside of my SNES. But I think I owe you an explanation of where I come from and after that, I'll leave you alone:
    I think that the unadulterated whimsy IS the horror. Few things are scarier and more unsettling than constant, unbroken smiles. What is more frightening than having a broken leg and finding out that your doctor is Barney the Dinosaur? I find Bedlam way more worrying then the undoing. I mean, imagine you visit a friend's house and they have a small child and suddenly the (glamour-ladden) toy soldiers start talking and shouting while you try to have a conversation with you friend. I find this constant feeling of being gaslighted and in danger of seeing dragons where there aren't even chimerical ones way more unsettling than dreariness. Hopelessness isn't the opposite of whimsy, it's just better hidden inside the latter. Neverland seems nice until you realize that you'll be a pre-pubescent boy for all times, there are mermaids, who want to drown you, pirates who want to kill you and fairies who might put a bomb in your home because the boss has been flirting with some new girl. (Yeah, Tinkerbell tried to kill people twice in the movie and way more often in the books... kinda fitting that she is such a big Disney mascot)
    I mean, whimsy is scary. Fairy tales are scary. They are constantly about people being killed, maimed, eaten or raped (original Sleeping Beauty had her have a child with the prince before the curse was broken). To provide an example from the fairy tales that I grew up with:

    Herr Korbes
    THERE were once a cock and a hen who wanted to take a journey together. So the cock built a beautiful carriage, which had four red wheels, and harnessed four mice to it. The hen seated herself in it with the cock, and they drove away together. Not long afterwards they met a cat who said, "Where are you going?" The cock replied, "We are going to the house of Herr Korbes." "Take me with you," said the cat. The cock answered, "Most willingly, get up behind, lest you fall off in front. Take great care not to dirty my little red wheels. And you little wheels, roll on, and you little mice pipe out, as we go forth on our way to the house of Herr Korbes."
    After this came a millstone, then an egg, then a duck, then a pin, and at last a needle, who all seated themselves in the carriage, and drove with them. When, however, they reached the house of Herr Korbes, Herr Korbes was not there. The mice drew the carriage into the barn, the hen flew with the cock upon a perch. The cat sat down by the hearth, the duck on the well-pole. The egg rolled itself into a towel, the pin stuck itself into the chair-cushion, the needle jumped on to the bed in the middle of the pillow, and the millstone laid itself over the door. Then Herr Korbes came home, went to the hearth, and was about to light the fire, when the cat threw a quantity of ashes in his face. He ran into the kitchen in a great hurry to wash it off, and the duck splashed some water in his face. He wanted to dry it with the towel, but the egg rolled up against him, broke, and glued up his eyes. He wanted to rest, and sat down in the chair, and then the pin pricked him. He fell in a passion, and threw himself on his bed, but as soon as he laid his head on the pillow, the needle pricked him, so that he screamed aloud, and was just going to run out into the wide world in his rage, but when he came to the house-door, the millstone leapt down and struck him dead. Herr Korbes must have been a very wicked man!
    See all that whimsy? Everyone is so happy and eager all the time. And then people die and the whimsy won't end! Makes you long for banality, doesn't it?
    Morose melancholy can you completely numb at worst. Whimsy disarms you and if you shove realization of how messed up it is into the player, you get way more of an reaction. I mean, The Little Matchstick Girl punches you in the gut because it is genuinely hopeful and beautiful. And then you notice that you're reading the dying fantasies of an abused child.
    TL;DR: Whimsy is more horrifying than Banality could ever hope to be because you get numb to the latter while whimsy keeps you vulnerable.
    But maybe that's just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lanir
    replied
    Mostly you take all of these games and make of them into whatever you want them to be. It's not always the simplest task but if you pull it off the rewards can be worth it. For example (and getting back to the original topic a bit) I understand the Seeming vs apparent or actual mortal age thing going on and how they can seem quite out of sync. I actually think that's pretty cool but I probably won't be exploring it at first. It may be too much detail too soon for my players.

    The game I'm running looks to be a Werewolf/Changeling crossover I'm at least initially setting in the Dark ages at the fringes of the war between the Tremere and Tzimisce. The players are new to the setting havnig played just one module for Vampire: the Dark Ages. I'm taking a bit of a "show don't tell" approach with the game setting lore and if it works well, I may fast forward time and have them playing descendents of their original characters... which just coincidentally allows for easy course correction and/or experimentation in case something isn't working. So... What I want to do is not necessarily trivial with all the crossovers, it might blow up in my face, and it's almost certain to veer sharply away from canon at some point or other. But if everyone has fun then it's a successful game. Along the way I plan to take a big cartoon hammer to any setting detail or rules mechanic that gets in the way of that.

    For some perspective, my original WoD experiences were early Vampire and Werewolf editions (later just Vampire). The guy running it only knew how to run D&D so everything was that sort of "here's some superficial puzzle and next you meet a lot of people you'll need to beat up" thing. It was frustratingly far from my style of game but we were friends so played together a lot. They later graduated to a powergaming approach to it that felt a bit like superheroes with fangs. I tried interesting them in Changeling when it came out because their style of play would have fit it better than Vampire but they weren't really willing to give it a shot. They liked Vampire even though their approach to stuff like the Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand book had a lot more in common with a shopping list than a mystery plot. But they got one thing really right: they were playing the game they wanted to play. As a matter of fact the only real problem was it took them awhile to figure out how to run games that included the tastes and preferences of all their players.

    Leave a comment:


  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Put another way: there's a reason why other WoD fans had the (mis)conception that the gameline was nothing but light-hearted rainbows and unicorns.

    C20 dispels that notion by clarifying some of the darker parts of Changeling but still keeping the aspects of dreams and wonder. Having both makes the game much more nuanced and interesting so it's not always so one-note. Which I would rather have aside from being the one thing.

    (conversely I've heard of the one fan who calls Changeling as the actual most depressing game in World of Darkness, and that it's actually more depressing then Wraith. and that it's been that way since 1st-2nd edition)

    EDIT: Did not see the mod post above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Davesknd View Post
    C20 was written by the same misery-lovers that committed the game-crime of Beast the Primordeal
    In the future, please try to keep your critique to the product, not the people who make it, and avoid namecalling.

    Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post
    Based on his comments on this Forum Charlie seems to be a good guy. Rudeness can be a good way to express your anger, but don't make it personal. We're on the same side. RPG lovers are a minority, what doesn't need internal flame-wars.
    Rudeness is not a good way to express anything in a public forum where rules 1 and 2 are “respect other people” and “respect the conversation.” If you want to avoid flame-wars, then don’t start the fire, and don’t blame other people for taking personal attacks personally.

    Leave a comment:


  • PookaKnight
    replied
    Originally posted by Davesknd View Post
    I really get the feeling that you guys really and profoundly enjoy using misery, drearyness and hopelessness
    What can I say? The '90s were formative years for me. I unironically enjoy a good, new miserable experience

    Seriously though, the dichotomy between the crushing hopelessness and the unadulterated whimsy is one of the things I've always loved about Changeling: The Dreaming. I definitely try to leave the door open for wonder in my Changeling work while still establishing that yes, it is a World of Darkness gameline and yes, it is a horror setting. It's a balancing act, and how well I pull it off (or don't) is certainly up to the reader's interpretation.

    Hopefully you'll enjoy Book of Freeholds more when it drops, but reading your posts, I'm not sure you will. I tried to call back to all eras of Changeling: The Dreaming's publication in my sections, but it is tonally in line with C20 and the supplements released so far.
    Last edited by PookaKnight; 02-08-2018, 05:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Davesknd
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    And you know: C20 was the game that cemented Changeling: the Dreaming as being *the* World of Darkness game for me.

    That it clicked with me on the level that Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage didn’t.

    So watch it.
    I'm honestly glad that you enjoy it and I wish I could as well

    Leave a comment:


  • tasti man LH
    replied
    And you know: C20 was the game that cemented Changeling: the Dreaming as being *the* World of Darkness game for me.

    That it clicked with me on the level that Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage didn’t.

    So watch it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Davesknd
    replied
    Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post

    I'm right here. I'm probably the most active, but I'm definitely not the only C20 writer who reads the Changeling forum. It's fine that C20 isn't your cup of tea, but could you please try expressing that without the insults?

    Wasn't meant as one. Just that whenever I open the more recent books, I have the feeling that the current writers seem to actively dislike and reject the very strong sense of black humor and irony that laced the older books. I really get the feeling that you guys really and profoundly enjoy using misery, drearyness and hopelessness without sprinkling in any of the disarming charm and humor that classic WoD had. (Where is the Gummy Gum Gun?)
    Sorry, no offense meant. I apologize.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lachdanan
    replied
    Originally posted by marin View Post

    ...what encouraged homosexuality on Garou? I did a search through the C20 PDF on 'Garou' and 'werewolf', and there's nothing
    Yep, after the Changing Ways it's cannon that certain tribal leaders encourage homosexual realtionships to circumvent the 1st Law.

    "Nay to Valkyres, yes to Eric Third Might Pillar!"

    I loved the Elders more when they were strict, antitolerant, conservative assholes, who forced the Lithany by the letter down in our throat.

    By the way, I find it nauseating that the writers state that the sexual relationships can be encouraged, so to speak the sexual orientation manipulated by force.

    And it also contains second grade, Forsaken-scented material.

    Originally posted by PookaKnight View Post

    ...could you please try expressing that without the insults?
    Based on his comments on this Forum Charlie seems to be a good guy. Rudeness can be a good way to express your anger, but don't make it personal. We're on the same side. RPG lovers are a minority, what doesn't need internal flame-wars.
    Last edited by Lachdanan; 02-08-2018, 04:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PookaKnight
    replied
    Originally posted by Davesknd View Post
    C20 was written by the same misery-lovers
    I'm right here. I'm probably the most active, but I'm definitely not the only C20 writer who reads the Changeling forum. It's fine that C20 isn't your cup of tea, but could you please try expressing that without the insults?

    Leave a comment:


  • Davesknd
    replied
    Originally posted by Lachdanan View Post

    C20 must have made you lot of pain. Like having a sexual relationship with a grinder.

    But I understand it. I find lot of x20 material OFFENSIVE / poor quality. The Dauntain rules, the new Kinains, the encouraged homosexuality on Garous (this also means that sexual orientation can be forced, and could lead to a discussion how we could cure it) are too much for my liking.

    And yeh, some of the new / remade Arts are more broken than ever.
    It did amaze and ultimately amuse me that so much love and care went into a so disappointing and shoddy product. But then again, that describes way too much of modern Onyx Path. I mean, I'm not a fanboy. First Edition was unplayable without the Player's Guide and Second Edition had parts that I really disliked (Dragon's Ire? Really? My Boggun cook has a Devil Trigger/Super Sayan mode now?). But you know... it was a different time, it was so delightfully refreshing when compared to the other WW games and at least the artwork was amazing.
    C20 was written by the same misery-lovers that committed the game-crime of Beast the Primordeal (The Hague is informed and I will personally reopen Spandau prison for the writers). It never had a chance...

    Leave a comment:


  • Manbat
    replied
    I think Lachdanan meant the 20th anniversary series (V20, M20, W20, etc...) when he said "x20", not just the C20. The Garou stuff he is referring should be on the W20.

    Leave a comment:

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