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Astral Projection and the Dreaming

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  • Astral Projection and the Dreaming

    While reading the excellent Hunters Hunted 2, it occurrd to me that he psychic numina "Astral Projection" could allow mortals to perceive the fac main of Changelings and even journey into the Dreaming. What do you all think of this? Dream travelling has long been associated with psychics.

  • #2
    I would use it as a different power with simular mechanics and costs.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by zenten View Post
      I would use it as a different power with simular mechanics and costs.
      Why? Numina is SO expensive.

      Astral travel in V20 (which astral projection references) allows entering different spirit worlds. While this likely means the Umbra(s), the Dreaming is not so far off the astral path. Of course, I could see mortals getting SUPER lost.

      Perhaps requiring Faerie More or a thematic item like a Hag Stone, or a 4-leaf clover?
      Last edited by MythAdvocate; 03-02-2018, 05:39 PM.

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      • #4
        Ah, I thought you meant a power that basically let you project as a chimera in the Autumn world.

        As to visiting the Dreaming, sure, but unless the power specifies otherwise that would be incredibly dangerous, with the nastiest local chimera coming after you as a defence against your Banality. Although staying within a dream realm might be safer, depending on the dream.
        Last edited by zenten; 03-02-2018, 06:22 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by zenten View Post
          Ah, I thought you meant a power that basically let you project as a chimera in the Autumn world.

          As to visiting the Dreaming, sure, but unless the power specifies otherwise that would be incredibly dangerous, with the nastiest local chimera coming after you as a defence against your Banality. Although staying within a dream realm might be safer, depending on the dream.
          Agreed. And a great way to tie in a mortal psychic into a Channeling game.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post

            Agreed. And a great way to tie in a mortal psychic into a Channeling game.
            How would it help though? Changeling rare enter the Dreaming either, and when they do they try to stick to the Silver Path, which I think it would be reasonable to say these mortals are banned from just like anything else that isn't a child of the Tuatha. And besides, if a Changeling has a way to enter the Dreaming, they can bring a mortal along with them physically as well, no psychic powers required.

            Now, being able to self enchant would be useful, which is where the Kinain rules come in. Having a mortal psychic also be a Kinain using the C20 rules seems like a good way to have them on par with a Kithain PC, and you're not limited to picking astral projection either.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by zenten View Post

              How would it help though? Changeling rare enter the Dreaming either, and when they do they try to stick to the Silver Path, which I think it would be reasonable to say these mortals are banned from just like anything else that isn't a child of the Tuatha. And besides, if a Changeling has a way to enter the Dreaming, they can bring a mortal along with them physically as well, no psychic powers required.

              Now, being able to self enchant would be useful, which is where the Kinain rules come in. Having a mortal psychic also be a Kinain using the C20 rules seems like a good way to have them on par with a Kithain PC, and you're not limited to picking astral projection either.
              Not from a changeling point of view perhaps. But mortals ? Kinain Hedge Magicians and psychics make sense to me.

              I really like mortal+ games. And the astral travel info also means that Vampires with Auspex 4 can do it too. This works for me, especially Malkavian and Kiasid.
              Last edited by MythAdvocate; 03-02-2018, 10:41 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post

                Not from a changeling point of view perhaps. But mortals ? Kinain Hedge Magicians and psychics make sense to me.

                I really like mortal+ games. And the astral travel info also means that Vampires with Auspex 4 can do it too. This works for me, especially Malkavian and Kiasid.

                I'm pretty sure astral travel into the Dreaming is canonical, or at least heavily implied.

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                • #9
                  canonically astral travel is into the High Umbra. As for astrally projecting into the Dreaming... this just seems like how you become a kermet

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post
                    canonically astral travel is into the High Umbra. As for astrally projecting into the Dreaming... this just seems like how you become a kermet

                    Yes. But the Astral Projection Numina in Hunters Hunted 2 says to look to VtM 20 Auspex for info on Astral travel. And that explicitly ststes that Astral travel can lead to other "spirit worlds". Hence my initial pondering on travel to the Dreaming. Strikes me this could be a way for Fomorians, Denizens or Thallain to have gained access to the Autumn world.

                    On THAT note, the channeling efforts of Nazi Occultists could have delved into the Dreaming prisons of the White Court (?) and gained terrible insight and aid from these Elder Dark monsters.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post


                      Yes. But the Astral Projection Numina in Hunters Hunted 2 says to look to VtM 20 Auspex for info on Astral travel. And that explicitly ststes that Astral travel can lead to other "spirit worlds". Hence my initial pondering on travel to the Dreaming. Strikes me this could be a way for Fomorians, Denizens or Thallain to have gained access to the Autumn world.

                      On THAT note, the channeling efforts of Nazi Occultists could have delved into the Dreaming prisons of the White Court (?) and gained terrible insight and aid from these Elder Dark monsters.

                      Its a neat idea, I'm just saying when they mean "spirit worlds" its specifically the High/Astral umbra as of Umbra 20. This doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't change this, and allowing Malkavians to project into the Dreaming could reconnect to their older edition fairy connections, as would Toreador Glamour obsession and Tremere explicit statements on not angering the fae in their oath.


                      I still think though that Human projectors have an issue other races do not, that humans, even Human plus(which I'd include both Numina and most Mages) have a bodies that can be stolen. There's even a Dark Kin type that represent human ghosts who have lost their bodies and exist in the Dreaming.

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                      • #12
                        Dark kin and Thallain killing Astrally wandering mortals and stealing the body is a great plot twist.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
                          Dark kin and Thallain killing Astrally wandering mortals and stealing the body is a great plot twist.
                          Don't even need to kill them. Just jack the body leave the guy behind.


                          One could even make a sinister implication as there are some Arcadian Sidhe who seem to have been abit older than the Ressurgence... and that both the American and Soviet intelligence apparatus had experiments on psychics just before the space race started...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lian View Post

                            Don't even need to kill them. Just jack the body leave the guy behind.


                            One could even make a sinister implication as there are some Arcadian Sidhe who seem to have been abit older than the Ressurgence... and that both the American and Soviet intelligence apparatus had experiments on psychics just before the space race started...
                            Haha ! Love. It.

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