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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    I'm not bothered by Grimm Fairy tales, its more stuff like "Beasties are tied to the Imperigum" or "This is a Hunter Kith' or "this was inspired by the Dreams caused by other supernatural being..." and there should be an intrinsic inhumanity.

    No one for example thought Benandante weren't people. They were heretics. Revanants/Vampires/Wights I don't think are good places to look similarly because while they are clearly monsters they clearly 'started as people"

    But I wouldn't have issue with a Witch Kith, not because there are mages out there and people dream about them, but because while there clearly are Witches who started normal there's also are those who are always otherworldly(Baba yaga, Circe, Grendel's mom)

    Similarly I'd have no problem with someone making a Penagallan or Raven Mocker, though those might be better Thallain, because no one thinks they are people.
    Thing is a lot of Fae used myths of people like many of the houses like Beaumayn, and King Arthur. An Irish king is said to be a reincarnation of Finn Mac Cool. And did you read the Beasties write up, they invoke the delirium and call it Gaia’s mercy they were inspired by prehistoric werewolves. The bogies have a birthright names after the weaver. And I was thinking a hunter type that invokes many myths, like the wyld hunt, Cernnunos, faery tale huntsmen, and just tie it into one kith like they did with the original 9 kiths. And most of the vampire myths the vampires weren’t humans, they were evil spirits inhabiting corpses.

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  • No One of Consequence
    replied
    I haven't really made my own. I usually tend to try to adapt the existing original Kiths to creatures that seem to fit them. Satyrs, for example, I've found work really well mechanically for the North American Deer Woman legend. But this is mostly because I have always kind of sucked at trying to come up with new mechanical systems on my own.

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  • Lian
    replied
    I'm not bothered by Grimm Fairy tales, its more stuff like "Beasties are tied to the Imperigum" or "This is a Hunter Kith' or "this was inspired by the Dreams caused by other supernatural being..." and there should be an intrinsic inhumanity.

    No one for example thought Benandante weren't people. They were heretics. Revanants/Vampires/Wights I don't think are good places to look similarly because while they are clearly monsters they clearly 'started as people"

    But I wouldn't have issue with a Witch Kith, not because there are mages out there and people dream about them, but because while there clearly are Witches who started normal there's also are those who are always otherworldly(Baba yaga, Circe, Grendel's mom)

    Similarly I'd have no problem with someone making a Penagallan or Raven Mocker, though those might be better Thallain, because no one thinks they are people.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post


    There are Fera types with "Fairy flavor" you could make a Kithain with Fera flavor(Nunehei do touch on that somewhat). Many mythological were types have alot in common with say Selkie(put on the skin of the animal they transform into), you could also swap out some mechanics on the Pooka to get a variety of more savage types..



    I think that is what my issue with some of Degusto's ideas are. I feel Kithain should have a "real myth" basis.. so I intrinsically don't like the idea of "Hunter" kith but I would have no problem with someone playing a Slenderman kith(though that's probably Sluagh)
    All the myths I listed have a myth basis. The Hunter Idea I had for the Benandante are a real myth of people born in a birth caul, who use swords made of Herbs to hunt Witches Ghosts and Demons. I was leaning more towards myths and folklore rather then specifically Grimm Fairy Tales.

    To be fair a lot of the Werewolf Myths kind of imply the werewolves are Undead witches or vampiric beings so Abominations kind of also seem natural.

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  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


    Not sure. It was just an idea I had.

    Also, I know almost nothing about classic Werewolf, as I have none of their books.

    There are Fera types with "Fairy flavor" you could make a Kithain with Fera flavor(Nunehei do touch on that somewhat). Many mythological were types have alot in common with say Selkie(put on the skin of the animal they transform into), you could also swap out some mechanics on the Pooka to get a variety of more savage types..



    I think that is what my issue with some of Degusto's ideas are. I feel Kithain should have a "real myth" basis.. so I intrinsically don't like the idea of "Hunter" kith but I would have no problem with someone playing a Slenderman kith(though that's probably Sluagh)

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post


    How would they radically be different than build on previous "Faerie" type fera(Fianna, Ceilican. etc)

    Not sure. It was just an idea I had.

    Also, I know almost nothing about classic Werewolf, as I have none of their books.

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  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Idea for a Kith:

    Rougarou - They'd be the Changeling counterpart to Abominations. Instead of being a Werewolf / Vampire, they would be a Werewolf / Changeling.

    Or would that work better as a fae blooded Fera?

    How would they radically be different than build on previous "Faerie" type fera(Fianna, Ceilican. etc)

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Idea for a Kith:

    Rougarou - They'd be the Changeling counterpart to Abominations. Instead of being a Werewolf / Vampire, they would be a Werewolf / Changeling.

    Or would that work better as a fae blooded Fera?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bluecho
    replied
    After some thought (and reading the C20 book some more), I'm revising my stance on the Paperskins, vis a vis their Seelie and Unseelie attitudes.

    Contrary to my earlier opinion, Seelie Paperskins would not choose to spread information freely. Rather, they would act as stewards of knowledge. That means collecting it, and even sometimes preventing its spread, if the Kithain believes that the knowledge may be too dangerous to release or too valuable to advertise. Like Glamour, a Seelie Paperskin sees Information as a resource to be hoarded and used properly. A consistent attitude with the general Seelie desire for order. That said, they will spread knowledge when they see it as safe to do so, and will advocate the academic arts and sciences, for there is a kind of beauty in scholasticism. As there is also beauty in prose and poetry and even argument.

    On the other side, Unseelie Paperskins see knowledge, like Glamour, as something to be available to all. It's a basic human (and Changeling) right. Information wants to be free. Hoarding knowledge is wasting it, is squandering its value. A fact that could do good, kept in a box, is a crime against those who suffer for want of that fact. Ignorance may not be a crime, but enabling it IS. How can a person make an informed decision about what to do or who they are, if they are deprived the facts? How can a person be truly free, if they are shackled by ignorance? Moreover, preventing knowledge from spreading promotes stagnation, which is the spawning pool of that great evil, Banality. Learning promotes re-evaluation of previously held beliefs, which in turn promotes change. If an Unseelie Paperskin slips into a locked store of information and steals it, they do so with the desire to bring that information to light. To act as Prometheus, and deliver revelation to the masses.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Pretty cool idea that each Paperskin holds a unique ancient secret yeah, I can dig it.

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  • Bluecho
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Oh I like it, with the nature of Changeling games I would probably say they fit libraries almost as much as Mage, and this is a fun unique and simple new kith. Pondering what is written on them, perhaps someone can suss out their true name, or their legacies and court through investigating the symbols to different degrees. Maybe vivisecting one could be a method of learning Greymare and or arts.
    Another possibility is that it's ancient lore, otherwise lost to the ages. Changelings are born from dreams, yes? Well, mayhaps an ancient scholar leaked hidden lore into the Dreaming in their sleep, which collected in fragments on a Paperskin's flesh?

    Might make certain Mages take interest in the Changeling or their whole Kith, if the magi thinks they can learn some lost secret.

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  • Bluecho
    replied
    As an extension of my previous post, I present a Thallain counterpart to the Paperskin: the Diabolic Record.

    Remember that idea I presented earlier, of Paperskins being conflated with demons? These Thallain are like if that myth came to life. But in truth, they'd be much older. Diabolic Records are the nightmares born of the fear of dangerous knowledge, and from evil revelations. When they became Changelings, they became as blasphemous tomes, so commonly writ in blood and bound in human skin. Their paper-flesh is often stained, and the scrawls made by a maddened hand, in far older languages, and in ruddy hues. Sumerian, ancient Sanskrit, old Chinese, and other tongues have been seen on them, and those that understand the texts often wish they couldn't. Their flesh is also often host to diagrams of a blasphemous, even infernal nature.

    Diabolic Records are driven to learn, yes, but do so in a destructive fashion. They steal useful knowledge for themselves - often going to the trouble of burning all other extent copies, so only they have it. They are also known to torture those with knowledge until they spill it, then kill them (again, so they can have the information all to themselves). They are also known to pen lies - plausible lies, usually, but untruths nonetheless - in order to confuse people as to which set of information is correct. A given Record might set themselves up as reputed scholars or individuals of intellectual authority, in order to maximize the chance that dangerous untruths are spread.

    For indeed, one of their greatest preoccupations is not just learning (by any means necessary), but also manipulating the flow of information towards the most harmful ends. They'll steal positive information - knowledge that could possibly lead to good results - and remove them from circulation. Consigning people to ignorance, that they may continue their cycle of uninformed errors. Whole Tragedies - worthy of Shakespeare - have been propagated by Diabolic Records withholding the right information at the wrong time, simply for their own amusement.

    On the other side, Records will seek to spread information - true or false - that is negative, in the hopes that it will do the most harm. Secrets kept "for the greater good" are released, while intense or dangerous knowledge or texts are given to those who would least benefit from knowing it. A copy of Mein Kampf given to impressionable youths, or an underage child being given access to graphic material (of any sort) that is sufficient to emotionally scar them. Do not be mistaken in believing a Diabolic Record is interested in truth for its own sake. She won't release knowledge of a high-ranking executive sexually harassing employees, for instance. Doing so might lead to the executive being fired or even jailed, which would be a positive outcome. She's more likely to cover up such info, while releasing evidence of a different executive's casual but consensual and harmless affair, resulting in his company taking a hit in the stock market and losing one of its more talented (if morally imperfect) men.

    And, of course, let's not forget that there really IS dangerous knowledge in the World of Darkness. Set aside "normal" dangerous knowledge, like how to create bombs or chemical weapons, or how to hack people, or where to go to buy drugs. We're talking about knowledge of evil things. Diabolic Records often spread the secrets of summoning demons, binding banes, or calling down the attention of things from beyond the stars. Few Diabolic Records are foolish enough to consort with devils themselves - that's a suckers game. Instead, they find infernal tomes, and do what they and their Paperskin kin do best: make copies. If a random copy of a book on summon demons or channeling dark magic winds up in the locker of some emotionally disturbed high school student, it might have been the work of a Diabolic Record.

    Then again, the Diabolic Record might opt to instead just leave that kid the address of where some gang bangers hide their cache of automatic weapons. Because that address IS, in fact, knowledge.

    That these Thallain truck in information to derive their sadistic jollies is part of why they can be so successful. They rarely get their hands dirty, unless they are already prepared to get away it cleanly. Like the beforementioned torture of a person for information, which the Record will most likely do in the privacy of their own library dungeon. Most of the time, the harm they cause is a result of disrupting or facilitating the spread of information, in such a way that other people do all the harm for the changeling. As such, a Diabolic Record will often operate freely in a given city for years before being discovered.

    Unless their search for knowledge gets the attention of those who would rather not be known. More Diabolic Records die from the fangs of vampires than is usual for fae beings.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Oh I like it, with the nature of Changeling games I would probably say they fit libraries almost as much as Mage, and this is a fun unique and simple new kith. Pondering what is written on them, perhaps someone can suss out their true name, or their legacies and court through investigating the symbols to different degrees. Maybe vivisecting one could be a method of learning Greymare and or arts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bluecho
    replied
    Just got my hands on C20, and did a skim. Came up with a Kith idea, working from myths I invented whole cloth.

    For the moment, I call them Paperskins, from the fact that their fae forms have skin with the color and texture of parchment, or rag or wood pulp paper. This skin is also covered, from head to toe, in line after line of writing script, usually in some ancient or possibly forgotten language. The text itself ought to have some kind of important meaning, if translated, but I haven't figured out what I'd do with it. Right now, I leave it as an exercise to the players and storytellers what they WANT it to say, and how hard it might be to translate and interpret. Make a story hook out of it, I don't know. Further, I imagine that the older a Paperskin gets, the more yellowed their fairy skin becomes.

    We're all familiar with tales of helpful fairies who do housework or cobble shoes, in exchange for some consideration. These are the dreams of common folk, though, pertaining to common pursuits. Those literate individuals - specifically scribes and scholars - have their own stories. Stories of fairies with skin like parchment (or, later, paper), who sneak into libraries at night and perform minor tasks, such as organizing book collections or doing copy work. Their most helpful guise was dreamed by copyists as being the fae who would do to their text copying what other fae might do for a shoe cobbler. Fantasies of little folk who would do their work for them, I mean.

    The Paperskins were said to gain access to libraries and writing chambers by going flat, and fitting neatly in the cracks under doors or between windows. Some may even be said to take residence in libraries, by folding themselves up and wedging themselves between the pages of underused tomes. Others may be said to have qualities of both paper AND text, and be able to crawl across surfaces as illustrations.

    Of course, during the middle ages (at least in Europe), most books were owned by the church, and most copyists in the church's employ, if they weren't priests or deacons themselves. So wishes to have little people sneak in to do their work might be frowned upon. What is such a fairy but an obvious minion of the devil? Or so it was said. As such, other stories of Paperskins would see them as sneak-thieves, interested more in stealing priceless tomes from their owners, rather than doing them work. And, of course, which role the Paperskin would play might come entirely down to capricious whims, or whether the book's owner managed to offend the fairy's alien sensibilities.


    So to put this all together, Paperskin Changelings would likely have one Birthright devoted to letting the character either become flat as paper, or to sink into flat surfaces and crawl around on them. Another Birthright would probably be giving them -1 to all Academics rolls, and prevent them from ever botching same.

    For the Frailty, I was thinking about making them fearful of fire. They ARE associated with paper, which is flammable. I wouldn't make them actually take any more damage from fire, just make it spook them. Might port over the Rotshreck mechanic from Vampire, so they had to make a Willpower roll to avoid getting scared away by fire.

    Alternatively, I could make it so a Paperskin can't leave a sentence unfinished, as a nod to their work as copyists and scribes. That might be difficult to roleplay, though. It might just be limited to written (or, in the modern age, typed) word.

    Seelie Paperskins would be devoted to archiving and spreading knowledge. The act of learning gives any Paperskin joy (and maybe even let them obtain Glamour if they learn something new and profound). Unseelie Paperskins love knowledge too, but have a habit of hoarding and stealing it. To them, knowledge shared loses its value, and so should be taken and kept at all costs.

    If I had to attribute one quality to the Kith as a whole, it would be Curiosity. If another, it would be their ability to take pure pleasure from learning. Teachers, academics, rare book hunters, and the like all fit them very well.

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



    Probably because I just skimmed through the inanimae section.

    Thanks for the heads up, you two. Didn't know the idea was already in place!
    Your take on Nymphs is good. Just give them another name. Nymphs proper and these folks would be seperate because they took different paths long ago.

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