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Have you made your own Kiths?

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  • #76
    I'm not bothered by Grimm Fairy tales, its more stuff like "Beasties are tied to the Imperigum" or "This is a Hunter Kith' or "this was inspired by the Dreams caused by other supernatural being..." and there should be an intrinsic inhumanity.

    No one for example thought Benandante weren't people. They were heretics. Revanants/Vampires/Wights I don't think are good places to look similarly because while they are clearly monsters they clearly 'started as people"

    But I wouldn't have issue with a Witch Kith, not because there are mages out there and people dream about them, but because while there clearly are Witches who started normal there's also are those who are always otherworldly(Baba yaga, Circe, Grendel's mom)

    Similarly I'd have no problem with someone making a Penagallan or Raven Mocker, though those might be better Thallain, because no one thinks they are people.

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    • #77
      I haven't really made my own. I usually tend to try to adapt the existing original Kiths to creatures that seem to fit them. Satyrs, for example, I've found work really well mechanically for the North American Deer Woman legend. But this is mostly because I have always kind of sucked at trying to come up with new mechanical systems on my own.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Lian View Post
        I'm not bothered by Grimm Fairy tales, its more stuff like "Beasties are tied to the Imperigum" or "This is a Hunter Kith' or "this was inspired by the Dreams caused by other supernatural being..." and there should be an intrinsic inhumanity.

        No one for example thought Benandante weren't people. They were heretics. Revanants/Vampires/Wights I don't think are good places to look similarly because while they are clearly monsters they clearly 'started as people"

        But I wouldn't have issue with a Witch Kith, not because there are mages out there and people dream about them, but because while there clearly are Witches who started normal there's also are those who are always otherworldly(Baba yaga, Circe, Grendel's mom)

        Similarly I'd have no problem with someone making a Penagallan or Raven Mocker, though those might be better Thallain, because no one thinks they are people.
        Thing is a lot of Fae used myths of people like many of the houses like Beaumayn, and King Arthur. An Irish king is said to be a reincarnation of Finn Mac Cool. And did you read the Beasties write up, they invoke the delirium and call it Gaia’s mercy they were inspired by prehistoric werewolves. The bogies have a birthright names after the weaver. And I was thinking a hunter type that invokes many myths, like the wyld hunt, Cernnunos, faery tale huntsmen, and just tie it into one kith like they did with the original 9 kiths. And most of the vampire myths the vampires weren’t humans, they were evil spirits inhabiting corpses.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

          Thing is a lot of Fae used myths of people like many of the houses like Beaumayn, and King Arthur. An Irish king is said to be a reincarnation of Finn Mac Cool. And did you read the Beasties write up, they invoke the delirium and call it Gaia’s mercy they were inspired by prehistoric werewolves. The bogies have a birthright names after the weaver. And I was thinking a hunter type that invokes many myths, like the wyld hunt, Cernnunos, faery tale huntsmen, and just tie it into one kith like they did with the original 9 kiths. And most of the vampire myths the vampires weren’t humans, they were evil spirits inhabiting corpses.
          There is definately a reason I prefer Varich, Aesin, Balor, Leahaun, Danaan and Scathach naming than the others. Even more explicitly Hybrids like Cu or Hercules would be on the table..oooh that gives me an idea. I'm swapping Gweydion in the future.. with a proper name. The King of Heroes.. Gilgamesh.

          KJ Demon shintai can also inspire delerium, nothing about the beastie writeup says "tied to werewolves" it doesn't even say "Wolf like" in the description, I find the "gaia's mercy' effect a cute easter egg, that could stand on its own without werewolves existing at all they are the creatures in the dark. i think Boggies are kind of superflous and Ghasts could use a Greys Kith as their thallain vs Red cap connections.

          And no quite afew Vampire myths involve the dead person's spirit returning to the corpse because of sin, improper burial, escape from hell.. really KJ are pretty solid on the mythology outside the racial stuff.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Lian View Post

            There is definately a reason I prefer Varich, Aesin, Balor, Leahaun, Danaan and Scathach naming than the others. Even more explicitly Hybrids like Cu or Hercules would be on the table..oooh that gives me an idea. I'm swapping Gweydion in the future.. with a proper name. The King of Heroes.. Gilgamesh.

            KJ Demon shintai can also inspire delerium, nothing about the beastie writeup says "tied to werewolves" it doesn't even say "Wolf like" in the description, I find the "gaia's mercy' effect a cute easter egg, that could stand on its own without werewolves existing at all they are the creatures in the dark. i think Boggies are kind of superflous and Ghasts could use a Greys Kith as their thallain vs Red cap connections.

            And no quite afew Vampire myths involve the dead person's spirit returning to the corpse because of sin, improper burial, escape from hell.. really KJ are pretty solid on the mythology outside the racial stuff.
            How is that different from what I said? I already said it was more a meta waster eggy type of thing, and that and the others don’t need at all for their even to have the prodigals existing but if they do they tie into them, hence why they are more defined by actual myths like running water and Garlic.

            While I need to more thoroughly read the rest of the book I’m fine with Ghasts. thallain don’t need to be exact twins, the Ghasts represent a more twisted terror then being eaten. Like Selkies and Kelpies Though it could have been cool if say Redcaps were a Thallain that became a Kith and their Counterparts were a Kith That became a Thallain.

            And it’s not no, vampire myths do involve evil spirits possessing a corpse, it’s just that sometime stories said it was the corpses own spirit. Their are definitely stories of corpses being possessed because they were buried wrong and a demon passed over them and such.

            And there are even stories that the Slaugh were based on that they were dead people that became fae. It’s not unreasonable some changelings originated as people, the dark Age Changeling were like that.

            And even if not the way C20 is you could have brand new Kiths. That is perfectly acceptable.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

              How is that different from what I said? I already said it was more a meta waster eggy type of thing, and that and the others don’t need at all for their even to have the prodigals existing but if they do they tie into them, hence why they are more defined by actual myths like running water and Garlic.

              While I need to more thoroughly read the rest of the book I’m fine with Ghasts. thallain don’t need to be exact twins, the Ghasts represent a more twisted terror then being eaten. Like Selkies and Kelpies Though it could have been cool if say Redcaps were a Thallain that became a Kith and their Counterparts were a Kith That became a Thallain.

              And it’s not no, vampire myths do involve evil spirits possessing a corpse, it’s just that sometime stories said it was the corpses own spirit. Their are definitely stories of corpses being possessed because they were buried wrong and a demon passed over them and such.

              And there are even stories that the Slaugh were based on that they were dead people that became fae. It’s not unreasonable some changelings originated as people, the dark Age Changeling were like that.

              And even if not the way C20 is you could have brand new Kiths. That is perfectly acceptable.
              I think you might be misreading my intent. I'm not trying to game police here. I'm saying "these are my personal biases and why I don't like some of the things you write" its entirely me saying that.

              I like the idea the sluagh and Redcaps were "Stolen" from the formorians like the Balor, so I think Boggies are kind of pointless. But I like Ghasts conceptually but don't see why they need to be the "Redcap" thallain, plus they are wierd grey/pale people with skill at surgery that causes you to lose time...

              ON vampires that's completely splitting hairs. If the previous inhabitant returns to the corpse then yes that's them. The claim that the vast majority of Vampire legends ESPECIALLY Slavic are "demonic possession" is debateable.

              Now a Dark Kin who could only possess corpses.. that could be interesting..

              Generally people only become fairies ala DA changelings by extended time in fairyland not by other means.

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              • #82
                I may have been misreading intent.

                I do believe Ghast were including Grey myths, as well as Urban Legends, and even Slenderman, but they specifically didn't want to tap into the Alien thing.

                I didn't even say the vast Majority, I said evil spirits possess corpses, some say they are the corpses own spirit some say otherwise, particularly since the corpse didn't have to be evil.

                Interesting idea for making them a dark kin.

                And yes that's the idea, you can become a changeling through extended time in Faery, like being traded there as a baby or say your soul being spirited away there for a timeless age. One of the hinted Idea is commoners were Dark Age Fae that descended from Changelings, while Sidhe were Firstborn.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  So one of the Kiths I'm thinking up, yeah I know I listed like a billion already, is a Kitchen God, the Zao Jun Kith. And since they are of the same type of supernatural beings as a Domovoi but part of the Celestial Bureaucracy and more associated with fortune rather then protection I was thinking of tweaking the Domovoi birthrights. So keep the Home is a Freehold schtick, with emphasis on the stove, and maybe instead of being sneaky and silent inside the house there could be something to reflect bestowing or retracting fortune? But there are tons of ways to handle that, and I could just lump those in to sly uses of Arts. So maybe a birthrite to create a pocket room within the Stove/Hearth/Kitchen? But they already have the Home as a Birthright so maybe that isn't appropriate. Maybe a Free dot in Craft (Cooking) and a -2 difficulty and no botches on cooking rolls as well as maybe a power to spend a dot of glamour and anything they cook or that is cooked in their kitchen relieves stress to any that eats the meal and gives pleasant carefree rest? How should I represent that? Increase Willpower upon waking after eating? Lower difficulty for social rolls within the household?

                  Maybe I can have Treat the abode with a Stove, including if the patronized stove is a restaurant, as a freehold as one. And the 2nd one God of the Kitchen treats cooking and brewing rolls with a minus 2 diff, can't be botched, and if they spend a glamour they may make a simple nourishing meal from water, stones and inedible ingredients.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                    I may have been misreading intent.

                    I do believe Ghast were including Grey myths, as well as Urban Legends, and even Slenderman, but they specifically didn't want to tap into the Alien thing.
                    There's a solid paranormal hyothesis that Alien abduction and Fairy interaction were the same thing so I feel making a Grey kith is solid ground, similarly I'd have no problem with a Slenderman Kith, though Ghasts might hit that solidly.


                    I didn't even say the vast Majority, I said evil spirits possess corpses, some say they are the corpses own spirit some say otherwise, particularly since the corpse didn't have to be evil.
                    I can't think of a particularly benign vampire myth(though I'm not a world expert) even Revenant myths I can think of are about REVENGE

                    Interesting idea for making them a dark kin.

                    Dark-kin are normally possessors, they CAN have permanent bodies but that's a merit. Some have limitations on how and what they can possess.


                    And yes that's the idea, you can become a changeling through extended time in Faery, like being traded there as a baby or say your soul being spirited away there for a timeless age. One of the hinted Idea is commoners were Dark Age Fae that descended from Changelings, while Sidhe were Firstborn.
                    Anyway the reason I brought it up was why I wasn't quite sold on the archtype born, though I could see inanimae in dvds or movies who have the "form" of the character...

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                    • #85
                      I can't think of a particularly benign vampire myth(though I'm not a world expert) even Revenant myths I can think of are about REVENGE
                      The vampires are evil, but what I am saying is they could arise from the dead bodies of even goodly old grandpappies.


                      Anyway the reason I brought it up was why I wasn't quite sold on the archtype born, though I could see inanimae in dvds or movies who have the "form" of the character...
                      These were supposed to be Fae from other Kiths, anything like Slaugh or Sidhe that were essentially Nulled into being like unmade Stem Cell Changelings, I was experimenting with the idea of Fae representing nothing from Myths, so they merged with a family of Chimera born from Cinemas. So they have no connection to their old incarnation. They were essentially made into Changeling Seeds that provided the Material for a Chimera to do something similar to Jongaleurs and the Jackelope.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                        The vampires are evil, but what I am saying is they could arise from the dead bodies of even goodly old grandpappies.
                        Well yes, I think a fear of the dead/death dark kin that possesses your grand dad's corpse and does horrible things with it might have some weight.. not sure if it might be too unplayable though.




                        These were supposed to be Fae from other Kiths, anything like Slaugh or Sidhe that were essentially Nulled into being like unmade Stem Cell Changelings, I was experimenting with the idea of Fae representing nothing from Myths, so they merged with a family of Chimera born from Cinemas. So they have no connection to their old incarnation. They were essentially made into Changeling Seeds that provided the Material for a Chimera to do something similar to Jongaleurs and the Jackelope.
                        I get your idea, I'm just saying I don't quite like the flavoring and my method of trying to hit that take would be inanimae.

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                        • #87
                          I've made two kiths in my game, one if which is a Chimera fusion like Wolpertingers called the Jitters, changelings who were spawned in a series of Unleashings as a motley tried to save a few childlings and dreamers from a 'cure disorders' camp. The 'test' campers had all spawned imaginary friends to cope with the 'treatments' and we're ravaged and struck hard with banality, when they were fused with these broken souls they became sensitive to Banality making their individual problems worsen when things like Autumn People we're getting near as a instinctive response from their previous times as Chimera and children. Birthrights were Spontaneous Generation, they could spend Glamour to create temporary Chimerical items and to some extent companions while their other birthright was "Jitter Out" as the Mist obscured them for a scene from mundane eyes. Frailities was Banal Shivers, when a source of Banality over 6 approaches the Jitter his mind reels in panic as his problems grow worse, clicking tongue, drumming fingers, vocal outburst are just a few examples. STs and Players can come up with more and a Flaw could reflect it.


                          The other one is the Tikbalang, demon horse of the Philippines! Fierce combatants and tricksters, mount one of these beast and he will run trying to escape even passing through other worlds. Their birthrights we're Hooves of Thunder since in some tales the tremors and clap of thunder were attributed to them in the hills stomping hooves, fierce combatants giving them an additional Dex dot and they couldn't both melee and brawl rolls. Frailities were Stubborn, once their minds were set they could not be deterred from their path and Broken Horse, if the Tikbalang is wrestled the ground and their one Golden Hair is plucked they are forced into servitude to the opposing warrior. The Hair will not last long in the hands of someone not awakened and be eaten away by Banality, while magi and other lore savvy changelings might make the hair into a magical trinket to keep it and the Tikbalang it belongs to under their control.

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                          • #88
                            Just found a fan kith list when I googled it, some similar ideas to some of the things here but some seem to be using older or more clunkier rules, but may particularly be useful for inspiration, like now I may consider Greymalkin's the Kithain version of the Nyan.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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                            • #89
                              I was thinking about dethalaining Lurks as a wild spread tribal fae.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Lian View Post
                                I was thinking about dethalaining Lurks as a wild spread tribal fae.
                                They didn't seem particularly evil to me either, then again even Huaka'i Po are less thallain then say Redcaps.


                                It is a time for great deeds!

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