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  • Yōkai and Gallain shifting to other Gallain/Kithain groups

    Okay so I was pondering changeling on my 6 mile walk home from work I just got back from, also caught me some pokemanz, and I had some ideas on the nature of Youkai and cross Kithain/Gallain Kiths.

    So some like the idea of ignoring the Hsien or treating them more like Kithain. But I rather like how the Hsien were handled, and they work in the Middle Kingdom, even more then Changelings do. So I was thinking why not have the best of both worlds?

    So I think I want to compose a fan PDF probably when I move in august but I am filled with a lot of the ideas now. So how about the idea that the Hsien were essentially the the Fae aligned with the August Personage of Jade, while Dark Age Fae and the Tuatha's Fae are mostly the Unaligned/out for themselves Fae of the West. The Hsien were early on, read the time of Angels elsewhere, were reigned in by Heaven and given purpose. I have an idea that the perhaps the Youkai of Nihon were the errant children that avoided responsibilities, and perhaps even many of the Early Hsien draft dodged to these hinterlands of the Middle Kingdom. Now because of this they had a different fate when the Hsien were punished during the whole everyone was tricked by the Wan Xian period. The Youkai were smaller than Hsien over all, since they were mostly confined to Japan, with smaller local communities elswhere. They also include the different Kiths of the Hsien, so there are for instance a good amount of Youkai Tanuki and Nyan. So when the Hsien were barred from heaven and reborn into humans the Youkai wandered like Fae of the Dark Ages living mostly in the mortal World, with some banished from the Earth to the Mirrorlands.

    When the Shattering extended beyond Europe and Eurasia, Japan received the Shattering with the European merchants. The Hsien evolved into a more Umbral/Spirit offshoot of the Fae tied more towards Gods and the Umbra and ignorant of the Dreaming (as the Dreaming I'm thinking became more of a concrete idea after the Shattering). The Youkai though were free agents and without their connection to Heaven and Umbral Patronage they were vulnerable to Banality like the rest of the Fae. They developed the ritual of the Hengeyokai (their variant of the Changing Way Ritual), partially inspired by the ancient Fae tradition of the Changeling Way they have been using, partly inspired by encounters with the Kithain/Gallain, and partly inspired by their knowledge of the Hengeyokai, Hsien and Wan Kuei being half spirit they took to it readily.

    The Youkai have essentially Changeling versions of Hsien animalistic commoners, and elemental nobles, but also have kiths resembling Kitsune (Basically a group of the Fox spirits that didn't follow the White Faced One and stayed spirits like Inari eventually became changelings, partially by invoking their cousins legend, the same with the Tengu. These fellas, along with the animal kiths of the Hsien, are called Doubutsu no Ke, and include some other kiths like the Inu (think dog shifter opposites of the Nyan, and Kappa being goblinoids who are tied to turtles).

    The Umi no Ke are the group that includes the the Water aspected Kamui, and the water animal commoners of the sea, as well as a subgroup of Merfolk known as the Umijin.

    I am a fan of Lian's Yuki Onna and will probably use a varient of them.

    And Dragonkin Varients descended from Dragonspirits called Ryu exist, and are probably nobles.

    I have a few ideas for Noble houses, particularly based on the Four Directional Beasts (Genbu the Black Tortoise, Seiryu the Blue Dragon, Suzaku the Phoenix and Byakko the White Tiger).

    There are also the Yomi no Ke, also known as the Asura. They include the Oni Tribes/Kiths that are cousins to the Trolls: the Oni a subkith of the Trolls but were the Trolls are more themed after the Seelie you could see the Oni as more Unseelie (though the Youkai don't use that court system), the Gozu and the Mezu are the Japanese Toumu and Mamian Oxhead and Horseface Ogres, the Hannya a group dominated by Ogresses who are similar to Thallain, and the Onigumo Devil Spiders, who were demon spider totems of the Kumo who invoke their legend much like the Kitsune. They also include the spirits of the dead that the Asura freed from the torments of the Yama Kings as well as rounding up those they encountered lost in the mirrorlands. These include the Bōrei ( think the basic ghost kith, or those derived from hun souls not necessarily from hell), the Hungry Ghosts (thin necked needle teethed spirits of hunger, and perhaps the Po souls who became spirits after their bodies were long forgotten and decomposed, they invoke the legends developed by the Wan Kuei), and the Shinigami inhuman and a relatively new kith that came about with the new millenium that were found wondering Yomi (Though legend has it they are actually an ancient kith from the Earliest days of the Hsien's founding).

    The Ten no Ke are a faction that just came about with the turning of the Millenium when the last of the Sidhe great houses returned. They include the Tenjin, mortal souls said to have been saved from wicked lives and given a second chance by the Goddess Kwannon, and a kith related to the Sidhe called the Amatsukami.



    The Tsukumogami are what the Youkai call Chimera, and the Yokai often have relations with the Inanimae of Nihon, whom they often call Kami. They also lump the Gaian physical halfspirits called Kami with the Inanimae Kami.



    For most of their history the Youkai were mostly contained in Japan and the Ryukyus but, with mostly only merchants and monks traveling beyond their homeland. They did have a few offshoots connected to similar groups of renegade Hsien around the Indian Subcontinent, the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. During WWII however the Youkai of the Summer and Winter Courts conquered lands on the Mainland and the Philippines. After they lost the War they were chased mostly back to Nihon, but some holdouts remained in Vietnam, Philippines, Hong Kong, Macau and Korea and eventually they mingled and merged with the Kithain and local Gallain to sheppard the local dreaming mostly ignored by the local Hsien. Eventually the Spring and Autumn courts became prominent and the Youkai even spread into Hawaii, Brazil, Singapore, Thailand, Russia, and North America. North Korea has a hold out of Winter and Autumn Court Yami no Ke who feed off the fear, suffering and xenophobia common in the area with any other courts often being smuggled to other lands.

    Instead of the Seelie Unseelie divide the Youkai use a more Primordial Season Courts. Spring touches upon the promise of the Spirits and the Dreaming. Summer court are warlike represent conquest across all lands and travel. Autumn Courts represents the human world, but especially the urban environment and represents Youkai who hide among the humans. Winter Court represents the Yin realms of the Dead.

    There are lots of minor kiths among the Youkai who don't number very high such as the Long Necked Youkai, and various Kith families that may only number a dozen or less.

    Some Youkai have over generations of marrying into and adoption by the Kithain as well as Oaths and cultural assimilation have become Kithain, as well as some Kithain have become Youkai.

    And some Kiths such as the Pookah have subkiths found in Gallain groups, such as the Pooka of America are found as a group of Kiths: the Wisakedjak Cranes, Tse'tsetco Ravens, and Altse'hashke Coyotes.

    I would like to make a PDF for this when I get the chance. Still reading Changeling 20, just started it even though I am reading other stuff too but man I love this anniversary book!


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    Well since I'm sort of working out my own version of this idea I'll give you some of my bits as well.

    Hsien- are their own supernatural type, They are another type of prodigal. Changelings have a story about how they used to be something(haven't filled this story in yet). Mages say they are the same thing as the Fallen, but paradigm is all to them.

    Hengey-are a Kith or group of kiths, or are related to the Pooka. Or perhaps Pooka "kith variants". Rather than having a Tanuki, Inugami, Nekomata, kitsune etc I make a more generic build yourown animal that turns into a person or vice versa that covers alot of options. Probably something like Animal form, Pick one of 5 other birth rights, pick 1 of 5 frailties. Fox types might call themselves Yoko for sake of understanding or Kitsune to fuck with people who want a simplfied supernatural community.

    Werecreatures-they go back to their dark ages name that I can't remember right now.

    Ayakashi-I'm using this instead of Yokai because I like how it sounds better. its a synonym though.

    Tengu-in myths there are Crow tengu and Great Tengu. Crow Tengu will be the changing breed. Great Tengu are the guys with long noses, and can fly and create wind storms. They don't turn into crows. They get up set if you confuse to the two. They may be a "noble" kith.

    Oni-I've talked about Oni alot, so they are on my to do list.

    Metaplottyness- WW2 is much more the defining Metaplot point for Japan. Up until then they had a united Empire of the Chysthemum. But between the deprivations leading up to the end of the war, nukes.. the reconstruction period the Emperor and shogun were lost, while a number of Concordian Kithain tried to stake claims on the newly burgeoning lands or at least follow the dreams of american soliders.

    Since then the islands have been what they call "the Ayakashi Sengoku period" Of personal states and minor kingdoms without someone to bring them together. A number of concordian Kiths have assimilated into scenario, having had multiple generations of being born in Japan.. and vice versa there have been multiple generations of Ayakashi being born in Concordia. Ayakashi in Concordia are coming up to be about as common as those back of the book Kiths in Concordia.

    The first Yuki-Onna was made to be the Wife of Varich son of Sun and Moon. She could not bear his heat and died. But she was a true Fae! The slander against the Sluagh is just the Sidhe being unwilling to accept theirown failings. A part of every yuki-onna knows the pain of their mother. That she was destroyed and rejected by the one she was made to love and have an eminity with this house, they will never join it and always see the worst in it.. always.

    Perhaps if someone could find the first reborn.. but they would have to make Varich an Oathbreaker... there is no happy ending here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm I was considering the Tengu and pondering whether I should make two or one type. I was wondering a type of Birthright for them, like maybe a martial arts or teaching birthright? With legendary masters of Dragon's Ire.

      But I'm a fan of just lots of kiths for the Youkai rather then one kith representing multiple things.


      I was also trying figure the Angle for the Baku. Maybe they are like harbingers of Nightmare, so Thallain or even Fomor type beings. And trying to think of maybe a Naraku Inanimae for the Hellfire of the Atom Bomb and corrupt leylines.

      As for other houses I don't want to make too major gods into houses since most of Changeling ignores that with them more likely being Tuatha, with exceptions like Balor, so maybe houses more like House Okininushi, and Ninigi for more heavenly gods, or maybe a House representing the Seven Lucky Gods. Or maybe I would make Gozu and Mezu houses rather then Kiths for Demons.

      Maybe also a Thallain like Mukade. The Yomi no Ke I'm thinking more freely mingle the Thallain with the demonic kiths. Or possibly have their equivalent of Thallain not limited to Nightmare Legacy and Unseelie (the Autumn and Winter Courts) and just have it Nightmare and any court.


      It is a time for great deeds!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        Hmm I was considering the Tengu and pondering whether I should make two or one type. I was wondering a type of Birthright for them, like maybe a martial arts or teaching birthright? With legendary masters of Dragon's Ire.
        These are just my ideas. I'm personally going to go with "Crow tengu are werecreatures" "Daitengu are changelings"

        But I'm a fan of just lots of kiths for the Youkai rather then one kith representing multiple things.
        Its a compromise between that and Pooka/Hengey have more splats than the rest of the game put together. Of the top of my head I can think of stories of: Snakes, Spiders, Mice/rats, cats, Dogs, Wolves, Bears, Foxes, Racoon-dogs, Cranes, Monkeys, Badgers(who are not tanuki), generic "birds", fish, turtles. This is before I could easily get 13 different Kitsune variants depending on elemental alignment, and whether or not Bakeneko and Nekomata should be the same thing or separate.

        animal that turns into a person and does stuff is a VERY common motiff.




        I was also trying figure the Angle for the Baku. Maybe they are like harbingers of Nightmare, so Thallain or even Fomor type beings. And trying to think of maybe a Naraku Inanimae for the Hellfire of the Atom Bomb and corrupt leylines.
        Baku eat nightmares. They were made by the gods to eat nightmares. That seems to line up pretty easy to "made by the Tuatha to eat nightmares" maybe they eat Thallain without making banality.. with the belief being they are reincarnated as proper kith?


        Ok I half jokingly want to suggest the daikaiju as the Kithain of the nightmare of the Atomic age who've been "redeemed" into proper Kithain from Thallain with the Implication that this is what happened to the Redcaps in prehistory...

        I'm though not sure if "small godzilla anthro" is really a good idea for a kith though.



        As for other houses I don't want to make too major gods into houses since most of Changeling ignores that with them more likely being Tuatha, with exceptions like Balor, so maybe houses more like House Okininushi, and Ninigi for more heavenly gods, or maybe a House representing the Seven Lucky Gods. Or maybe I would make Gozu and Mezu houses rather then Kiths for Demons.
        I would strongly consider renaming/redefining existing houses. For example:

        House Kaguya
        colors: Black and Silver.
        Nicknames: Moon maidens, Magical girls(derisive)
        Named after their maiden who came down from the moon these mystics are known for their compulsive need to involve themselves in all manner of mystery...


        As for Houses ignoring Gods... Aesin is a version of Aesir.


        Maybe also a Thallain like Mukade. The Yomi no Ke I'm thinking more freely mingle the Thallain with the demonic kiths. Or possibly have their equivalent of Thallain not limited to Nightmare Legacy and Unseelie (the Autumn and Winter Courts) and just have it Nightmare and any court.
        As of c20 remember the tribal fae now do have some connection to the Shining Ones and Do have theirown Thallain


        Thinking more about legacies I'm thinking I'd put Seelie types in Summer and Winter and Unseelie and Spring and Fall. The seelie representing a sort of stasis, where Unseelie represent the seasons of change.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lian View Post
          Ok I half jokingly want to suggest the daikaiju as the Kithain of the nightmare of the Atomic age who've been "redeemed" into proper Kithain from Thallain with the Implication that this is what happened to the Redcaps in prehistory...

          I'm though not sure if "small godzilla anthro" is really a good idea for a kith though.
          Well the umibozu are a thing...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

            Well the umibozu are a thing...

            That goes in the other direction...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lian View Post
              That goes in the other direction...
              Not really.

              One direction could be that the dropping of the bombs was the Japanese changelings' Evanescence, and the reverberation of nightmares on nuclear annihilation warped the umibozu so much that they started to resemble daikaiju.

              Comment


              • #8
                I heartily approve of this project(s). Though I confess, part of it is because I started watching Kakuriyo: Bed & Breakfast for Spirits today and kept thinking, "this would make a fun Changeling setting."

                (I like to imagine that the various kitsune, tengu, neko, same-bito, and other animal yokai types view the various shapechanger breeds as slightly backward cousins that only those with poor manners would bring up in mixed company.)


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh that sounds like an interesting series, I’ll check it out!

                  It really seems Yokai we’re made for changeling and the fact that they are just a sub portion of a regional varient of Gallain shan’t do them justice! I’m liking the fact that due to their regional nature combined with spreading them out through a number of kiths they will be very diverse groups!


                  It is a time for great deeds!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                    It really seems Yokai we’re made for changeling and the fact that they are just a sub portion of a regional varient of Gallain shan’t do them justice! I’m liking the fact that due to their regional nature combined with spreading them out through a number of kiths they will be very diverse groups!
                    ...and hence my initial bafflement when I discovered there wasn't an official Japanese Gallain anywhere.

                    Well, at least that's why fan works are a thing...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's been a while since I've run a Changeling game, but I used to try to go with the idea that, way back, down the long haul, into history back, the Kiths were several big large families/castes, and it was only after being cut off from "Arcadia" and undergoing the Changeling Way that they started to become different variations based on regional beliefs and the dreams they harvested for Glamour. So where once you had a single Kith that embodied Wisdom and Whimsey and was really good at taking animal form, now you have European Pooka, Coyote and Raven Manitou, Neko and Kitsune Yokai and so on. But then my games have always been really weird compared to "normal" Changeling.


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

                        Not really.

                        One direction could be that the dropping of the bombs was the Japanese changelings' Evanescence, and the reverberation of nightmares on nuclear annihilation warped the umibozu so much that they started to resemble daikaiju.

                        I mean at least the stories I'm familiar with make the umibozu proper giants and not human sized lizardy people.

                        Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                        I heartily approve of this project(s). Though I confess, part of it is because I started watching Kakuriyo: Bed & Breakfast for Spirits today and kept thinking, "this would make a fun Changeling setting."

                        (I like to imagine that the various kitsune, tengu, neko, same-bito, and other animal yokai types view the various shapechanger breeds as slightly backward cousins that only those with poor manners would bring up in mixed company.)
                        That may be why I'm using Ayakashi instead of yokai.




                        Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                        It's been a while since I've run a Changeling game, but I used to try to go with the idea that, way back, down the long haul, into history back, the Kiths were several big large families/castes, and it was only after being cut off from "Arcadia" and undergoing the Changeling Way that they started to become different variations based on regional beliefs and the dreams they harvested for Glamour. So where once you had a single Kith that embodied Wisdom and Whimsey and was really good at taking animal form, now you have European Pooka, Coyote and Raven Manitou, Neko and Kitsune Yokai and so on. But then my games have always been really weird compared to "normal" Changeling.
                        Pooka are European in that England/ireland/wales/scotland are in europe. They aren't Generically European, Kitsune/huli Jing, or Fox fairies as I've seen it translated are far more "Generically Asian" than Pooka are Generically anything. Sidhe have the same damned problem being super specialized on irish myth and pushed to be generic in the breach.

                        This is not to say "Noble pretty people" isn't a pretty solidly generic thing but the way that comes through is mostly following British Isles Traditions. There are all of TWO Houses for example that aren't.

                        Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

                        ...and hence my initial bafflement when I discovered there wasn't an official Japanese Gallain anywhere.

                        Well, at least that's why fan works are a thing...


                        Because 9/10s of Changeling has to be from Ireland. That's why. The fact that there's even one African Kith is amazing!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post
                          I mean at least the stories I'm familiar with make the umibozu proper giants and not human sized lizardy people.
                          Eh, creative license can be taken. Most of the kiths are.

                          Don't see too much of an issue with kiths changing rapidly to account for changes in culture. Plus, kinda hard to ignore the parallels.

                          Because 9/10s of Changeling has to be from Ireland. That's why. The fact that there's even one African Kith is amazing!
                          ...and counting the Oba, there's only two kiths that represent Africa. With the text hinting at more of them but in the gameline's +20 history have not been officially detailed.

                          Wat.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Baku I guess I over emphasized them being Dream Eaters rather then Dream and Nightmare Eaters. Hmm maybe they would work best as Dark Kin/Adhene?


                            Well instead of Daikaiju being a Kith I would make them a class of Chimera. And some Kithain can emulate them, such as Ryu and Beasties (Both of which I have using the Dragon King Chimerical form rules).

                            Man I want to now start a game set in Hawaii that crosses over the Kithain, Menehune and Yokai in a homebrew city. :P


                            One thing I don't recall the Books doing is touching upon Nunnehi marrying Kithain. Considering Native Americans married non Native Americans all the time. This would result then in Kithain and Nunnehi being born in the same family, and I propose they would start being part of one or the others group. So would say a Kachina born into a Kithain Family lose the Umbral and totem connection but gain the use of Freeholds and Kithain style Glamour? Same with say an Eshu born into say a reservation now being able to tap into the umbra and have a totem?


                            It is a time for great deeds!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

                              Eh, creative license can be taken. Most of the kiths are.

                              Don't see too much of an issue with kiths changing rapidly to account for changes in culture. Plus, kinda hard to ignore the parallels.
                              That can work.



                              ...and counting the Oba, there's only two kiths that represent Africa. With the text hinting at more of them but in the gameline's +20 history have not been officially detailed.

                              Wat.
                              Well the Eshu are rather important conceptually. They are the African kith but they are also the generic wandering adventurer/bard kith. That the Trope definer isn't "Generically" Irish/European is a pretty big deal for them.


                              This is why in my Yuki-Onna write up I want them to be seen as a proper Kith, not as Gallain but rather "They were born in japan, but the Dreaming has no such boundaries" that the kith should just as readily be useable for the Young Hostess in Kakuriyo, as well as Elsa from Frozen or Jadis from Narnia. But rather than assuming Europe or more particularly Ireland is the definer of the Kith, Let another culture leave its mark all over the world.

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