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Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

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  • Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

    Uhhh kept erasing this as I wrote it because the tab kept getting misclicked...

    So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?
    I mean if they steal the soul and body of a family or friend of yours wouldn't you hate them? Does anyone know what happens with the soul? I seem to recall something about them being tithed to Arcadia. In my headcanon they are sent to Arcadia, a tithe, and turned into a form of Changelings. This may make Sidhe more like traditional changelings switching with a mortal.

    And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis? Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.

    We need a solid discussion of what actually happens during the changeling way ritual. Is it a simple magic any fae can do? Can Adhene do it? Or is it tied to Arts? Maybe Unleashings? I would say Naming would be the one I would use to represent it. So did the adoption of the Changeling Way mean certain Masters of say Naming performed the Ritual for everyone else?

    As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning. I guess doing it properly means you are reborn into a baby, so I can see fear of kinda death happening, but the fact they can die for real is terrifying. Do we have more discussion? What do mosst Sidhe Believe? I think some think they return to Arcadia but that just seems a leap of faith. Since its been decades since the Resurgence if we weren't getting Sidhe returning every now and then it would be very noticeable as they die out. Before we had Autumn Sidhe in C20 they seemed to disappear except Scathach and Liam in the Autumn world after a few generations.

    But what do you think happens to the Sidhe soul after Death? Are they Destroyed? Do they go back to Arcadia? Or it also seems fitting for Nonchangeling way Fae to go to the Underworld after dying. Seems kind of cool, and could explain things like a Bean Sidhe Thallain. It seems also fitting if they do become a commoner, Claurichan do seem to be somewhat like Sidhe without the epic beauty, maybe their hording and drinking and fighting is to fill the void of loss of status. The Leprachauns after all are just a degenerate myth of the Sidhe gods of the Tuatha.

    And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.

    I hope the Player's Guide touches on this. I mean reading C20 right now it seems they gloss over it. The way its emphasized, it seems their is no real good reason why the Sidhe wouldn't undergo the Changeling Way unlease they have a concrete reason to believe it would screw them over.


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    I've always head cannoned that the Requirements that the Fallen use are the same for Arcadian fae. The variations on "souless"ness.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
      Uhhh kept erasing this as I wrote it because the tab kept getting misclicked...

      So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?
      I mean if they steal the soul and body of a family or friend of yours wouldn't you hate them? Does anyone know what happens with the soul? I seem to recall something about them being tithed to Arcadia. In my headcanon they are sent to Arcadia, a tithe, and turned into a form of Changelings. This may make Sidhe more like traditional changelings switching with a mortal.


      According to this video the mortal's soul is just booted out into the astral, or something like that. Confused, terrified and very rightly pissed off, it's probably trying to claw its way back and take revenge on the thing that stole its body.

      As for why they didn't do it. You have to remember the Arcadian Sidhe had been living in Arcadia for the last several hundred years. They never had to use the ritual, and when the resurgence happened, they had only precious few seconds to latch onto a host before the effects of Banality would set in. The most likely explanation is that they either didn't know about the ritual, or they simply didn't care.

      And in some cases, like House Aesin, it's made clear that they would have never even bonded with a human in the first place if they had any other choice in the matter.
      Last edited by Nyrufa; 05-02-2018, 09:42 AM.

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      • #4
        Last we knew in the original run, the keremet took the souls of those the sidhe replaced to Arcadia.


        Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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        • #5
          C20 changed several things in regard to the Changeling Way and deaths. Reincarnation no longer means being reborn as changeling infants, but rather a faerie soul bonding to an imaginative child's, the bonding of the mortal body to the faerie soul being what makes a changeling. In other words, there are no longer any changelings whose mortal bodies are younger than 2-3 years old, even if they haven't undergone the Chrysalis yet. In the case of Arcadian Sidhe, the mortal soul is kicked out of the way instead of bonded with.

          For banal death, it's still unknown if Arcadian Sidhe reincarnate. What is known is that when banal death occurs, an Arcadian Sidhe's soul goes into the Dreaming (not specifically Near, Far or Deep) beyond the Silver Path, whereas every other kith goes toward the Autumn World specifically to reincarnate. The description of banal death (page 291) then explains that in either case, they defy all attempts to follow their lost memories for more than a brief period because the call of their next life is too strong to resist. This tells us that Arcadian Sidhe do come back to life, but how you define "life" is open to the Storyteller's ideas. For all we know, they go back to Arcadia and wait for another glimmer before repeating the same process they did in 1969, or perhaps the Arcadian Way (as opposed to Changeling Way) involves using a specific chimerical substance or bunk performed in a specific portion of the Dreaming first.

          Arcadian Sidhe refused to bond with the human body they were inhabiting, so they kicked out the mortal soul in order to use the body as a host. In other words, instead of the mortal body being their own proper body, the mortal body is more akin to clothing for an Arcadian Sidhe. Non-Arcadian Sidhe denounce the Arcadian Way because they see it as needless possible destruction of the mortal soul as well as evidence that Arcadian Sidhe are stuck in their old ways.

          Arcadian Commoners were merely the entourage of the Arcadian Sidhe. As such, they wouldn't have had title when they returned to Arcadia and after the Resurgence. There's also a hard rule that Arcadian Commoners are members of a noble house (which makes sense; they'd be pages, guards, ladies in waiting, etc.; none of which would be a titled position). Once it became normal to start giving commoners titles, the Arcadian Commoners were likely the ones given title first in order to shore up power among the Arcadian Sidhe.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?
            I mean if they steal the soul and body of a family or friend of yours wouldn't you hate them?
            I would worry more about the the Prodigals. Some are veeery protective about their Kin. Angering a Garou is a sure way to test if you would reincarnate.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis?
            Yes, based on the Toybox novel. When Yirtalien was freed from his interdimensional prison and took a model's body he immediately become a Changeling, as if he even bypassed the Crysalis' confused aspects.

            I *thing* the newly attached AWARE faery soul and the impour of Glamour would be enough to trigger it.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.
            My theory: they would inherit the memories of the human and would be able to mimic her personality if they would like.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            We need a solid discussion of what actually happens during the changeling way ritual. Is it a simple magic any fae can do? Can Adhene do it? Or is it tied to Arts? Maybe Unleashings? I would say Naming would be the one I would use to represent it. So did the adoption of the Changeling Way mean certain Masters of say Naming performed the Ritual for everyone else?
            The greatest aspect of games are uncertainity. We don't know and we should not know what was the Changeling Ritual. It was done in bygone times and the power by it was made is long dust. It's creators may live / reincarnate, but the environment is changed (Banality, Banality and More Banality) that much it couldn't be easily repeated. But yeh, it was hinted that it was a Naming mass-unleashing.

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning.
            Because: 1) They are fools. 2) They don't want to sullie they noble blood (see 1). 3) They didn't have any information about the environment, the Banality stormed them & had no knowledge about the Ritual (see 1. - Always make reconnaissance). 4) And they may be not able to do the deed. (See above.)

            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            But what do you think happens to the Sidhe soul after Death?

            And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.

            I hope the Player's Guide touches on this. I mean reading C20 right now it seems they gloss over it. The way its emphasized, it seems their is no real good reason why the Sidhe wouldn't undergo the Changeling Way unlease they have a concrete reason to believe it would screw them over.
            Yes, the writers should touch these topics. I hope the answers will be as much depressing that we'd be happier without them. If I'd receive a pen & papers they were.


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            • #7
              Ahh so you can join a house without a Title? So you gain the Boon and Flaw? That feels like it should have been emphasized more, they go out of their way to say virtually all Entitled are in a house, I imagine a handful of exceptions.

              Interesting info thanks guys. Keep it coming!


              I'd imagine the saving grace being Prodigals at least won't be able to tell by default if you are a Sidhe, though some would especially if you replace a spouse, meanwhile it effects all Kithain since they know what you did to get your body.

              Still no estimates on the amount of Nonsidhe that returned with them?

              And we know some Sidhe do choose the Arcadian Way post Resurgence so its not a lost secret. I wonder if the Exiled Sidhe fresh from the Trods should be something that you can interact with before they get a host, like treat them as Lost Ones quickly dwindling from Banality, or if they would be like almost mindless phantoms driven like purty homing missiles towards a host.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                Ahh so you can join a house without a Title? So you gain the Boon and Flaw?
                You could. There is a template (Street Knight) in the Nobles - The Shining Host, pg. 110, who is a member of House, but doesn't have a title. My current character is also an associate with House Liam, but refuses to take a rank in the Kithain Society, but have sworn the House's Oath and follows it's tenets.

                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                I'd imagine the saving grace being Prodigals at least won't be able to tell by default if you are a Sidhe, though some would especially if you replace a spouse, meanwhile it effects all Kithain since they know what you did to get your body.
                Scent of the True Form a Level 1 Gift, what tons of Changers have. Yes, some times they won't be able to pick your scent, and even if you could, it's highly probable that you wouldn't know into WHAT their Kin turned into.
                But it changed, and a Rage filled furball has it in agression what lacks in patience.
                Last edited by Lachdanan; 05-03-2018, 05:32 AM.


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                • #9
                  Well they still don't know that they aren't their kin though, they could think that they work like other changelings, since Sidhe are new, and just think huh I guess my wife was a Faery. But I would like it addressed rather then Ignored, because it really gives off the impression the Sidhe may have been designed as NPCs early on and they half changed their mind.


                  But if you had to make up your mind for a Changeling Game, like the story involved finding out what happens to Sidhe after they die, what way would you go?


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    Also the saning has a new changeling recall their name, but for some it seems they choose a new name. Like David Ardy probably wasn’t the Faes name, unless what the Sidhr was Originally Ard Ri David? Same with Mumbai Shadow Court Sidhe Twins Siva and Kali, that seems more like they were choosing names from their hosts memories, either that or they were what fae aspects of Gods?


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #11
                      I was under the impression that no Changeling would risk going about making their true name public.

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                      • #12
                        A Changeling can have a mortal name, a Changeling name, a nickname (good for Sidhes who have looong and boring names), a True Name determined during the Saining, and maybe a deed name, if you are Wolf-Blooded.
                        Because your lord's pet sorcerer found out your True Name during the Saining, you are in a mess, just because your backstory.
                        'Cause who knows your True Name have -4 diff. from every mystical acts on you, including blessings and curses.

                        I've got an impression that sharing your True Name with somebody is one of the greatest act of trust.

                        Just to mention: Now I'm playing a Namer, who periodically Reweave his own True Name to be sure.


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                        • #13
                          And the Sidhe returned with a lot of royal Treasures, often that tie into Freeholds like, Scepters, Crowns and Seals, but what do they do? I seem to recall the older books detailing them more, but what were their powers, weren't they along the lines of allowing the divvying up of Glamour?


                          And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things? Are they expecting to have an Autumn Sidhe and it would thus harken the first Autumn Sidhe High King and probably a lot of tumult, or are they just fine with having a kinain baby and hoping a new Sidhe will arrive in a Glimmer and steal their babies soul and wear its body? The idea being Children of Sidhe are more likely to be hosts to returning Arcadians? Or Maybe he has some secret method he discovered to force a designation as a Sidhe host?

                          Do we have any mention of a character that was an Arcadian Commoner?


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            what happens when a sidhe's undone then?


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                            • #15
                              Maybe they were hoping or planning somehow for a new sidhe baby?

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