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Sidhe Possession, Changeling Way Ritual, the Non-sidhe Arcadians, and Reincarnation

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    --snip--
    And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things? Are they expecting to have an Autumn Sidhe and it would thus harken the first Autumn Sidhe High King and probably a lot of tumult, or are they just fine with having a kinain baby and hoping a new Sidhe will arrive in a Glimmer and steal their babies soul and wear its body? The idea being Children of Sidhe are more likely to be hosts to returning Arcadians? Or Maybe he has some secret method he discovered to force a designation as a Sidhe host?

    Do we have any mention of a character that was an Arcadian Commoner?
    It might be possible that King David was hoping to create a new far soul within his child. Still raises so many plot generating questions though. Or it would be anotheradoption thing.

    As for the later question, I don't remember a write up for an Arcadian commoner, or even a specific mention.


    Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Slanzer View Post
      C20 changed several things in regard to the Changeling Way and deaths. Reincarnation no longer means being reborn as changeling infants, but rather a faerie soul bonding to an imaginative child's, the bonding of the mortal body to the faerie soul being what makes a changeling. In other words, there are no longer any changelings whose mortal bodies are younger than 2-3 years old, even if they haven't undergone the Chrysalis yet. In the case of Arcadian Sidhe, the mortal soul is kicked out of the way instead of bonded with.
      I have to contradict you here.

      An Autumn changeling is born, has her Chrysalis, grows old, changes seemings, and ultimately dies, probably having been Undone before. Once dead, she reincarnates in a new body, and the cycle begins anew. See C20 p. 46.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And what happens when they possess a body, do they immediately chrysalis? Do they fall into the mists and memories of the body, and to everyone else they seem like the host just had a change of personality, once again like the traditional changeling concept of someones child looking the same but being different.
        It depends. In several books, many were lost to the Mists due to the Banality chock they experienced, while in other cases their faerie mien emerged immediately. The explanation is tied to the place where they emerged, I suppose. If their mortal host was near a trod or freehold, I guess they would be able not to fall into the Mists.

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        As it stands we don't really have much of a good reason why the Sidhe didn't perform the Ritual en masse upon returning. I guess doing it properly means you are reborn into a baby, so I can see fear of kinda death happening, but the fact they can die for real is terrifying. Do we have more discussion? What do mosst Sidhe Believe? I think some think they return to Arcadia but that just seems a leap of faith. Since its been decades since the Resurgence if we weren't getting Sidhe returning every now and then it would be very noticeable as they die out. Before we had Autumn Sidhe in C20 they seemed to disappear except Scathach and Liam in the Autumn world after a few generations.
        They didn't perform the CWR probably because 1) they didn't have the time and 2) it involves -- but here it's only my own pet theory -- the taking of an oath with a willing mortal. And I do think that would answer your other concern about sidhe being body snatchers. Yes, that's true, but the commoners are soul-tricking the mortals they bond with (again, it's my personal take on the matter).

        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        And what about the Arcadian non-Sidhe? We don't have much of anything on them. How many returned with the Sidhe? More or less then the Sidhe Host? It would be appropriate that they were more as they were the retinue of the House, I'd imagine many would be low titled house members. Hell that could explain the odd More Nobles to Commoner ratio in Neustra, the Arcadian nonSidhe could have flooded into France as a second Sidhe stronghold compared to Concordia. But do we assume the Arcadian nonSidhe mostly undergo the Changeling Way? That seems weird since why wouldn't they just do what their leaders are doing and become say an Autumn Boggan. After all their loyalties could be wonky after reincarnation and it would be probably advantageous to have your retinue steal adult bodies with you.
        There is one example of an Arcadian commoner in KB: Nockers. He's an Unseelie nocker and a member of the Shadow Court, an assassin of sidhe.

        In my game, an Arcadian commoner suffers from the same Frailty to Banality as the sidhe (so it's a Flaw).


        Last edited by mattboggan; 07-11-2018, 06:11 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          Does anyone know what happens with the soul? I seem to recall something about them being tithed to Arcadia. In my headcanon they are sent to Arcadia, a tithe, and turned into a form of Changelings. This may make Sidhe more like traditional changelings switching with a mortal.
          The souls of mortals displaced by sidhe are taken to Arcadia by the keremet (see DotD).

          In the Shadow Court book, it is explained that the Tithe was paid to the Underworld before the Shattering by the fae on the night of Samhain. It was the result of the Pact between Arcadia and the Shadowlands (see also Dreams & Nightmares). The Tithe was paid to maintain open the Bright Road, the road that fae took when they sensed that they were "old" and ready to begin a new life. It would allow them to start again in the spring of their existence. With the Shattering the Tithe was forgotten.

          My take on this is that despite being forgotten, the Tithe is still active. Changelings do reincarnate, having cheated death with the Changeling Way Ritual (see the post on the Arcadian and Autumn sidhe). However, Arcadian changelings, having not undergone the CWR, are taken as tithe to the Shadowlands when they die. This is why they don't return. Or maybe transformed...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Uhhh kept erasing this as I wrote it because the tab kept getting misclicked...

            So we need more info on Sidhe Possession. Wouldn't most Changelings be aligned against Sidhe because they are Bodysnatchers who steal a body and do Tuatha knows what with the soul?

            To what end would opposing them serve? The other kiths already tried to stand against the Sidhe, and they lost because the Dreaming gave the nobles its full support.

            Besides, if the Sidhe are body snatchers, then the commoners are soul eaters. The Changeling Way causes them to merge with their host's spirit, becoming a single being.

            Which scenario do you find more terrifying? Having your spirit deposited into a dream world paradise, or having your very identity assimilated by another being?

            And on top of that, Arcadian Sidhe only take ONE host during their time on earth. Autumn Sidhe and Commoners take dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of hosts throughout their numerous reincarnations.

            If anything, the Sidhe are the lesser of two evils!
            Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-11-2018, 07:19 PM.

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            • #21
              The idea is they stole peoples bodies and literally took over the Fae half of the World. And they won for a number of reasons, not the least of which was because a lot of commoners and nunnehi joined them. But Autumn Fae are born into bodies tied to mortal souls they don’t replace them, they grow as the same being. I mean it’s possible they might have in the first generation but it’s not a given. Did he literally aren’t your daughter or wife or neighbor but pretend to be, much more insidious the. The Fetch in Lost. And Arcadia isn’t necessarily a Paradise, it’s full of miracles but it isn’t heaven, and now some stranger lives in your body and bangs your wife.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #22
                Also why are some Sidhe so mighty when they return but others aren’t. Maybe we should have gotten rules for sidhe they are returning lords and those that are normal changelings.

                So in C20 king David wasn’t an Autumn Sidhe yet he was born in a mortal babys body as a one shot Arcadian Sidhe?


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

                  To what end would opposing them serve? The other kiths already tried to stand against the Sidhe, and they lost because the Dreaming gave the nobles its full support.

                  Besides, if the Sidhe are body snatchers, then the commoners are soul eaters. The Changeling Way causes them to merge with their host's spirit, becoming a single being.

                  Which scenario do you find more terrifying? Having your spirit deposited into a dream world paradise, or having your very identity assimilated by another being?

                  And on top of that, Arcadian Sidhe only take ONE host during their time on earth. Autumn Sidhe and Commoners take dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of hosts throughout their numerous reincarnations.

                  If anything, the Sidhe are the lesser of two evils!
                  Pure propaganda. The Changeling Way creates a fusion, not a replacement; a unity that goes on, lifetime after lifetime, carry the heart and soul into a another kindred spirit in each age.

                  And sure, they say those cast out so the Sidhe may walk this mortal world go to Arcadia in their place, but we have no proof and not all the Houses support such claims. To say nothing of the Keremet's take which claims those mortal souls as their charges.

                  The truth is, we don't know for sure.

                  But standing against the Sidhe who won that dreadful war helps no one.


                  Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                    Also why are some Sidhe so mighty when they return but others aren’t. Maybe we should have gotten rules for sidhe they are returning lords and those that are normal changelings.
                    This is a question I raised here:

                    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...arcadian-sidhe

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                      So in C20 king David wasn’t an Autumn Sidhe yet he was born in a mortal babys body as a one shot Arcadian Sidhe?
                      Never it is implied in any book that David was born into a mortal baby, and trust, having run a chronicle set in 1969 (The Winter Chronicles: Riders on the Storm, a tribute to the Doors' song), I have read them very closely. He took the body of a young child, as Morwen did, and they became mortal brother and sister.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                        And what the hell is the idea behind King David and his Wife expecting a Sidhe Childe to inherit things?
                        May I ask where you have read that?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mattboggan View Post

                          May I ask where you have read that?
                          In the C20 Core, the Concordia king David section mentions this.



                          So you think it’s sidhe that don’t recede into mists when they take a mortal that are so powerful? And it’s kind of a coin toss if it happens except sometimes those in freeholds and such are more inclined to keep their minds? Do you think Sidhe are driven by instinct to find suitable hosts when returning? Or are they able to be more free in where and whom they choose?


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #28
                            Another take on the question of the difference between the Autumn Changeling Way and the Arcadian Changeling Way is the matter of the Thallain.

                            In N:tSH and TSC, it has been revealed that the Thallain returned to the Waking Lands in 1969, riding alongside the sidhe the wave of Glamour back to Earth, coming directly from the Nightmare Realms.

                            In fact, prior to the Resurgence, Thallain had been drawn to Earth during the Interregnum by the new bleakness of the period. They worked to bring Winter (TSC p. 19-20). So, I'm guessing that explains why it is written in C20 (p. 370) that Thallain benefited from the Changeling Way. And from their description, it is the Autumn version, as they don't seem to suffer from Banality's Curse, which is, I surmise, the fate of all Arcadian changelings.
                            Last edited by mattboggan; 07-12-2018, 03:43 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

                              Pure propaganda. The Changeling Way creates a fusion, not a replacement; a unity that goes on, lifetime after lifetime, carry the heart and soul into a another kindred spirit in each age.

                              And sure, they say those cast out so the Sidhe may walk this mortal world go to Arcadia in their place, but we have no proof and not all the Houses support such claims. To say nothing of the Keremet's take which claims those mortal souls as their charges.

                              The truth is, we don't know for sure.

                              But standing against the Sidhe who won that dreadful war helps no one.


                              Once again, the Changeling Way assimilates the mortal soul with the Fey spirit. The host body loses its ability to fully function in the Autumn World, because it fears the destruction of its soul for doing so. And when it's not paying bills or studying for final exams, they're bargaining with witches and battling fire breathing dragons with a 4 foot piece of sharpened metal!

                              So again, which do you think sounds more evil? Being safely tucked away in Arcadia, which all of these fey seem desperately trying to get back to, or losing your mind and body to a creature that you barely understand as your forced to lead a double life as a mortal fairy?
                              Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-12-2018, 10:02 AM.

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                              • #30
                                So does that mean the shadow is a parasite to the psyche or the avatar is some sort of body snatcher too?


                                It is a time for great deeds!

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